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  Reply # 709675 31-Oct-2012 09:11 Send private message

Bee: I know what Ive seen - Ive changed ISPs a few times in the last few years, most promise connection in 5 or 10 days and deliver pretty much on Schedule. Telecom promised connection within 48 hours and delivered well under that - for me and for one of my friends also...

YMMV for sure but you will take a lot to convince me that my personal experience was just luck and not the result of some special relationship between chorus and Telecom :)


Changing ISP's and requesting a new connection at a new property are two entirely different processes.

If you're merely changing ISP's it's pretty much the norm for that to be able to occur within 24 hours regardless of the ISP. It simply requires the VLAN config and tunnels in the ISAM to be changed.

If you have evidence to suggest Telecom are favoured I suggest you ring the Commerce Commission, they'll be very happy to speak to you!


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  Reply # 709693 31-Oct-2012 09:43 Send private message

RunningMan:
DonGould: [snip]

With 48% of the bb market, I suggest that it is easier for Telecom. If the leaving party is with Telecom and the gaining party is with Telecom then Telecom can just provision a service over the Chorus link and tidy up any paper work afterwards.



A good observation - I'd expect may explain the situation Bee observed, rather than any conspiracy between Telecom and Chorus (bring out those tinfoil hats...).


It's an interesting issue that will be interesting to see if Chorus ever take any ownership of.

With 4G coming and 3G getting much better, will Telecom and Vodafone just sell/give the customer mobile data access to get past these problems the other way around?

Or does Telecom just look at the problem and order up a new line and then sort that paper work later as well? 

Does Telecom just front the cost of the new install to just keep their customer happy and get them on the road?

Does Telecom also have staff who put in the effort to follow these things up to make sure they happen faster? 

I have to argue with Snap to get them to put me though to a provsioning specialist who then wasn't that interested initially in taking on the fight with Chorus and the local lines company to even get a new install done.

With 48% market share, Telecom can afford to push everything that's not already in their domain.

With <5% market share, just about everything new is not going to be in Snaps domain, so it makes it harder and much more expensive in time (which does equal money).

Given the profit margin in the DSL space, for Snap to push these things could cost more than the GP in 2 years.






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  Reply # 709723 31-Oct-2012 10:38 Send private message



I work at Telecom in the "BBA Jeopardy Team". The sole job of my team is to monitor every new broadband connection or move, and we act swiftly the moment any job fails. We have robust systems in place to monitor these jobs end to end.

In cases where a previous connection has not cleared, we can still create our connection request, but it becomes a 'linecard waiter' and cannot be attached to the address until the linecard has been cleared.

If no clearing order is in place, we can follow the abandonment procedure available to all providers to attempt to clear the line. If there is a clearing order in place, we have no way of speeding this up. So if my customer is already at the address, but the previous occupant's provider has a disconnection order due on Thursday next week, then we must wait until Thursday next week before we can proceed with our connection.

I can tell you that Telecom does not just order up a new line, unless the previous provider at the address has refused to vacate a line during the abandonment process. This is the only circumstance where Telecom will front the cost of a full install.

And yes, my team put in the effort to proactively monitor each and every job waiting for the previous connection to clear the line. We monitor the address and advise Chorus via Wireline as soon as the intact clears. Chorus then has a 4 working hour SLA to respond and schedule our incoming order. This will always be scheduled for the next available technician slot if a jumper is required. A lot of the time our order will complete within a few hours but only if the port has remained intact.

I hope this helps. Other providers have access to the same information that we do. Whether they proactively manage the jobs as efficiently as we do is a topic for debate elsewhere. There is no special relationship between Telecom and Chorus in this regard.




The views expressed by me are not necessarily those of my employer Telecom New Zealand

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  Reply # 709733 31-Oct-2012 11:00 Send private message

Wheelbarrow01: I work at Telecom in the "BBA Jeopardy Team".


Welcome :)

Do you have, or is there a Chorus process to better deal with these problems?

Do you see value in a simple Chorus 'Wholesale Customer" mailing list, or something like that, to just improve comms to sort this stuff better?

One point that seems important is being able to track down who the current service provider on the line is and getting them to bring a release forward if the property is vacant.

I would also like to know why Chorus don't have a process for simply queueing requests and the ability to process two requests from different providers within the same 4 hour SLA window?

From what you've said, it seems these issues are equally as expensive for your company as others and this is just being driven by a lack of simple processes within Chorus?






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  Reply # 709735 31-Oct-2012 11:02 Send private message

DonGould:
Wheelbarrow01: I work at Telecom in the "BBA Jeopardy Team".


Do you have, or is there a Chorus process to better deal with these problems?



He just posted a long, good post about this, answering exactly this question. I suggest you read it again.





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  Reply # 709740 31-Oct-2012 11:07 Send private message

freitasm:
DonGould:
Wheelbarrow01: I work at Telecom in the "BBA Jeopardy Team".


Do you have, or is there a Chorus process to better deal with these problems?



He just posted a long, good post about this, answering exactly this question. I suggest you read it again.



I did read it, but yes, that question wasn't very sensible on my part as it's clear that no one has a better process or I'm sure everyone would be using it.  Sorry.

It seems to me, as I said above, that everyone could benefit from Chorus taking more ownership of this problem and putting processes in place so that providers can both lodge request and have them all clear down within the same 4 hour window.

This must be a nightmare in Christchurch right now with people being displaced all the time.






Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!

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  Reply # 709743 31-Oct-2012 11:11 Send private message

Wheelbarrow01:

I work at Telecom in the "BBA Jeopardy Team". The sole job of my team is to monitor every new broadband connection or move, and we act swiftly the moment any job fails. We have robust systems in place to monitor these jobs end to end.

In cases where a previous connection has not cleared, we can still create our connection request, but it becomes a 'linecard waiter' and cannot be attached to the address until the linecard has been cleared.

If no clearing order is in place, we can follow the abandonment procedure available to all providers to attempt to clear the line. If there is a clearing order in place, we have no way of speeding this up. So if my customer is already at the address, but the previous occupant's provider has a disconnection order due on Thursday next week, then we must wait until Thursday next week before we can proceed with our connection.

I can tell you that Telecom does not just order up a new line, unless the previous provider at the address has refused to vacate a line during the abandonment process. This is the only circumstance where Telecom will front the cost of a full install.

And yes, my team put in the effort to proactively monitor each and every job waiting for the previous connection to clear the line. We monitor the address and advise Chorus via Wireline as soon as the intact clears. Chorus then has a 4 working hour SLA to respond and schedule our incoming order. This will always be scheduled for the next available technician slot if a jumper is required. A lot of the time our order will complete within a few hours but only if the port has remained intact.

I hope this helps. Other providers have access to the same information that we do. Whether they proactively manage the jobs as efficiently as we do is a topic for debate elsewhere. There is no special relationship between Telecom and Chorus in this regard.


Welcome also to GZ. Great first post. I think your insight is very useful. What you explained was missed when I talked to Snap. Now that I now know I should be able to place the order on the 8th first thing and then I can know by lunch time the date I will have a connection it's a bit better. It could be the next day. Might be mid the week after. Worst case 10 business days.

In your experience, how often to cancellation orders get delayed or not closed out correctly? i.e. come the 7th chorus disconnect the line of existing owner however don't close out the order. Does that happen very often? also do orders get closed during the day i.e. is there a chance the new ISP can place the wireline order late on the 7th.




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  Reply # 709745 31-Oct-2012 11:12 Send private message

sbiddle:
Bee: I know what Ive seen - Ive changed ISPs a few times in the last few years, most promise connection in 5 or 10 days and deliver pretty much on Schedule. Telecom promised connection within 48 hours and delivered well under that - for me and for one of my friends also...

YMMV for sure but you will take a lot to convince me that my personal experience was just luck and not the result of some special relationship between chorus and Telecom :)


Changing ISP's and requesting a new connection at a new property are two entirely different processes.

If you're merely changing ISP's it's pretty much the norm for that to be able to occur within 24 hours regardless of the ISP. It simply requires the VLAN config and tunnels in the ISAM to be changed.

If you have evidence to suggest Telecom are favoured I suggest you ring the Commerce Commission, they'll be very happy to speak to you!



Thanks also for your input on the topic. useful as always. I had always doubt Telecom would have any specical rules given Comm Comm issues.

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  Reply # 709747 31-Oct-2012 11:16 Send private message

Bee: Telecom can get a connection done within 24 hours and in my case it was 2 hours! from my initial phone call!!!
I dunno if special preference is given to telecom or not but yeah 10 days is utter crap!


I don't know if it's possible to be clearer than others who have stated that Telecom get no special preference with Chorus provisioning but I will try.

Telecom get no special treatment. They get treated the same way as any other retail ISP that submits all the forms or jobs correctly.

Anyone that says differently, or even offers conjecture about this is wrong, or mischievous. It doesn't happen.

Cheers - N 

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  Reply # 709758 31-Oct-2012 11:42 Send private message

DonGould:
Wheelbarrow01: I work at Telecom in the "BBA Jeopardy Team".


Welcome :)

Do you have, or is there a Chorus process to better deal with these problems?

Do you see value in a simple Chorus 'Wholesale Customer" mailing list, or something like that, to just improve comms to sort this stuff better?

One point that seems important is being able to track down who the current service provider on the line is and getting them to bring a release forward if the property is vacant.

I would also like to know why Chorus don't have a process for simply queueing requests and the ability to process two requests from different providers within the same 4 hour SLA window?

From what you've said, it seems these issues are equally as expensive for your company as others and this is just being driven by a lack of simple processes within Chorus?




I guess every provider will have their own systems for dealing with these situations. We use a system called ErrNest (stands for error nest). This application helps us monitor jobs as they progress through Wireline stages. Each time a job advances to the next stage in Wireline, ErrNest logs that change and keeps us updated. It was designed in-house and launched around the time Telecom switched from UBS to UBA for all new connections almost 3 years ago.

The identity of the current service provider is confidential to them, and like everyone else, we have no way of identifying who that may be, regardless of what those conspiracy theorists like to think.

If you are waiting for a line to be cleared, your incoming Wireline request should be treated as a linecard waiter. This means your request is actually queued in Wireline waiting for the intact line to disconnect. However the issue Telecom has is that when the linecard clears these are not automatically progressed - we have to advise Chorus to proceed. I imagine all other providers are in the same boat.

So yes, Telecom experiences much the same issues as any other company when trying to provision new services. I guess some of our successes could come down to resourcing. My team consist of 14 people, working shifts 7 days between 7am and 8pm. Our only function is to get our customers broadband connected as quickly and easily as possible. A lot of the time we get it right - but just like other providers, many times there are delays and hiccups beyond our control. All we can do is ensure those customers are aware of any delay BEFORE it happens. reactive order management never works.





The views expressed by me are not necessarily those of my employer Telecom New Zealand

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  Reply # 709763 31-Oct-2012 11:51 Send private message

Good post, Wheelbarrow. I was particularly interested in the fact that you have a team that manages connections from end to end.

The tag wrestling that Telco customers often get involved in is dismaying, downright inefficient and very bad from a PR point of view. UFB installs are a good example where your approach should be followed.

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  Reply # 709766 31-Oct-2012 11:53 Send private message

benmurphy66:

In your experience, how often to cancellation orders get delayed or not closed out correctly? i.e. come the 7th chorus disconnect the line of existing owner however don't close out the order. Does that happen very often? also do orders get closed during the day i.e. is there a chance the new ISP can place the wireline order late on the 7th.



You certainly can place your Wireline order late on the 7th, however Chorus only go by their working hours when they refer to their SLA - these are 0800 to 1700 Monday to Friday. So if your request is generated at 1500 you can expect a response by 1000 the next working day. But if your request is generated any time after 1700, the SLA will be 1200 the next working day.

You will sometimes get a response over the weekend as Chorus do have a skeleton crew working, but they cannot be reached by phone.




The views expressed by me are not necessarily those of my employer Telecom New Zealand



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  Reply # 709767 31-Oct-2012 11:55 Send private message

Wheelbarrow01:
benmurphy66:

In your experience, how often to cancellation orders get delayed or not closed out correctly? i.e. come the 7th chorus disconnect the line of existing owner however don't close out the order. Does that happen very often? also do orders get closed during the day i.e. is there a chance the new ISP can place the wireline order late on the 7th.



You certainly can place your Wireline order late on the 7th, however Chorus only go by their working hours when they refer to their SLA - these are 0800 to 1700 Monday to Friday. So if your request is generated at 1500 you can expect a response by 1000 the next working day. But if your request is generated any time after 1700, the SLA will be 1200 the next working day.

You will sometimes get a response over the weekend as Chorus do have a skeleton crew working, but they cannot be reached by phone.


Thanks again

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  Reply # 709778 31-Oct-2012 12:13 Send private message

linw: Good post, Wheelbarrow. I was particularly interested in the fact that you have a team that manages connections from end to end.


Yes, our team was formed when Telecom switched from UBS to UBA provisioning. Originally we were only seconded from other departments for 6 months while an automated system was being built to handle the orders but 3 years later we are still here - and likely to remain for the foreseeable future.

For me, getting it right for my customers comes down to feeling confident in my dealings with Chorus. On the whole they do a good job but you can't be scared to pull them up if you think they are wrong.

A case in point is the old "not capable of providing service" rejection. If you have investigated and you know you have other customers with working service just a few doors away, don't be afraid to call them on it. Their prequalification tool as well as their automated provisioning systems can be wrong sometimes. It can also pay to ask them if a transpose to another circuit might help. If your customer's pots line is tracing direct through to the exchange, you can ask them to investigate if there are any broadband cabinets close by. if so, they can often change the cable tracings so the line runs through that cabinet, which might just secure a broadband connection for you.




The views expressed by me are not necessarily those of my employer Telecom New Zealand

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  Reply # 709789 31-Oct-2012 12:25 Send private message

Wheelbarrow01:  The identity of the current service provider is confidential to them, and like everyone else, we have no way of identifying who that may be, regardless of what those conspiracy theorists like to think.


What's the value in this confidentiality?

# whois do.kiwi.nz
% New Zealand Domain Name Registry Limited
% Users confirm on submission their agreement to all published Terms
%
version: 5.00
query_datetime: 2012-10-31T11:56:35+13:00
domain_name: do.kiwi.nz
query_status: 200 Active
domain_dateregistered: 2012-09-11T10:02:39+12:00
domain_datebilleduntil: 2012-11-11T10:02:39+13:00
domain_datelastmodified: 2012-10-11T10:06:08+13:00
domain_delegaterequested: yes
domain_signed: no
%
registrar_name: Metaname
registrar_phone: +64 800 00 12 93
registrar_email: [email protected]
%
registrant_contact_name: Don Gould
registrant_contact_phone: +64 3 3487235
registrant_contact_email: [email protected]



So here's the full details for one of my domain names (less a bit of snipping because we get the idea...

You can do this on your computer using www.domainwhitepages.com if you don't have a shell session.

To move this domain all I need to do is contact the registrar and get a password set to the registrant who can then forward it to me.

I'd like to know why Chorus can't deliver us the same level of transparency?






Promote New Zealand - Get yourself a .kiwi.nz domain name!!!

Check out mine - i.am.a.can.do.kiwi.nz - [email protected]


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