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Topic # 110651 13-Oct-2012 10:21 Send private message

My Toshiba canvio 1T drive started ticking, and showing errors so I took it back to the shop as it was only 7 months old and asked for a replacement.

They wanted to send it away and get it repaired instead of just giving me a new replacement. Can they do this? Thats insane, it can never be trusted again.

Sure it might come back as "Drive fixed" if you use software to 'fix it' it, as I did but it will always be suseptable to errors, or have the taint of failure potential with it. As a result it would not be considered as a backup drive.

This means that hard drive warranties are meaningless unless there is a catastrophic failure. The repairer cannot 'fix it', and they don't have to give you a replacement new drive. Under the Consumer Guarantee Act is it considered 'fit for purpose'?

In the end I bought a new one and once I move the data across will take the old one in for 'repair'.

Anyone else have to deal with this?

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 700560 13-Oct-2012 10:49 Send private message

netspanner: My Toshiba canvio 1T drive started ticking, and showing errors so I took it back to the shop as it was only 7 months old and asked for a replacement.

They wanted to send it away and get it repaired instead of just giving me a new replacement. Can they do this? Thats insane, it can never be trusted again.

Sure it might come back as "Drive fixed" if you use software to 'fix it' it, as I did but it will always be suseptable to errors, or have the taint of failure potential with it. As a result it would not be considered as a backup drive.

This means that hard drive warranties are meaningless unless there is a catastrophic failure. The repairer cannot 'fix it', and they don't have to give you a replacement new drive. Under the Consumer Guarantee Act is it considered 'fit for purpose'?

In the end I bought a new one and once I move the data across will take the old one in for 'repair'.

Anyone else have to deal with this?


You have to give them a chance to fix it.....but you are well within your rights to ask them exactly how it was fixed, if you think the fix is substandard then you are entitled to reject it.

Check the toshiba warrantee policy as well, does it state repair or replacement?

before you accecpt it back from repair ask them to detail exactly how it was fixed, do a bit of research on this model of drive to see what are the common problems, and have been the fixes.

Make sure you are armed with these details before going to pickup the drive.

This also means you don't have to accecpt a "refurbished" drive as a replacement




gzt

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  Reply # 700562 13-Oct-2012 10:54 Send private message

The retailer must send it back to the agent for repair so that is what they will do.

If the agent replaces the drive inside the enclosure that is ok and it will be a new drive.

It could be the agent will assess it, find it failed, and send you a whole new product in a box anyway.

If you are concerned they may not replace the drive or send you a new product then use software to get the existing drive serial or id and verify it is different when you get it back.

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  Reply # 700571 13-Oct-2012 11:23

gzt: The retailer must send it back to the agent for repair so that is what they will do.

If the agent replaces the drive inside the enclosure that is ok and it will be a new drive.

It could be the agent will assess it, find it failed, and send you a whole new product in a box anyway.

If you are concerned they may not replace the drive or send you a new product then use software to get the existing drive serial or id and verify it is different when you get it back.


+1

You cant really 'repair' a hard drive - least not the bits inside the sealed disk part of it.
If it was a board inside the unit then its probably no big deal to repair/replace that - and that actual disk part would still be fine.

In all probability they will likely just replace the whole device though.
Dont panic!




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Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it it himself - A. H. Weiler

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  Reply # 700573 13-Oct-2012 11:26 Send private message

Highly unlikely that it would actually get repaired in New Zealand and returned to you.
What will probably happen is WS will send it back to their supplier who will then test it and if they found a fault they will just send a brand new one as a replacement.
What could happen though is if the supplier already has some certified repaired drives back from the manufacturer then you could get one of those as a replacement. Nothing wrong with these as they have been repaired and certified by the manufacturer.




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Biddle Corp
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  Reply # 700587 13-Oct-2012 11:57 Send private message

netspanner: My Toshiba canvio 1T drive started ticking, and showing errors so I took it back to the shop as it was only 7 months old and asked for a replacement.

They wanted to send it away and get it repaired instead of just giving me a new replacement. Can they do this? Thats insane, it can never be trusted again.

Sure it might come back as "Drive fixed" if you use software to 'fix it' it, as I did but it will always be suseptable to errors, or have the taint of failure potential with it. As a result it would not be considered as a backup drive.

This means that hard drive warranties are meaningless unless there is a catastrophic failure. The repairer cannot 'fix it', and they don't have to give you a replacement new drive. Under the Consumer Guarantee Act is it considered 'fit for purpose'?

In the end I bought a new one and once I move the data across will take the old one in for 'repair'.

Anyone else have to deal with this?


Most distributors don't allow goods to just be swapped out by a retailer - they require the goods to be sent back to them for assessment.

As is the norm with HDD's the distributor will make an an assessment as to the problem, and typically replace this. Once again as is the norm in the HDD space this will potentially be with a factory refurbished drive.

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  Reply # 700596 13-Oct-2012 12:24 Send private message

sbiddle: Most distributors don't allow goods to just be swapped out by a retailer - they require the goods to be sent back to them for assessment.


While sbiddle may be correct about what conditions the distributor chooses to impose on the retailer, the retailer still has to meet their obligations under the CGA.

You have the right to have the issue put right in a "reasonable" amount of time.

"Reasonable" is based on usage, not on 'provider business processes'.

I agree that it is 'reasonable' from a business point of view, to accept the drive might take 3 weeks to turn around by the time you consider a week for the retailer to pack it up and get it sent to another town, a week for the repairer to do their bit (allowing for the fact that they don't just sit about waiting for your drive to turn up but have a queue of jobs they work though) and a week to get it back to store and contact you.

If you use this drive to do a monthly back up then the above process is reasonable.  If you do a weekly back up with this drive then it's a bit touch a go.  As a general rule I think that missing 1 cycle of usage is reasonable to miss.  2 cycles is getting a bit less 'reasonable'.

If you use the drive for a daily back up or you're using the drive all the time as a data store or serving content to your media systems then none of the above is reasonable from the point of view of usage.

A retailer can't impose 'unreasonable' terms from their suppliers on you.  That is the whole point of the CGA.

So, the key issue here in your favour is if they can sort out the problem in a reasonable amount of time.  How they do that is their business, not yours.  Your entitlement is simply that it is done in a reasonable amount of time.






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  Reply # 700619 13-Oct-2012 13:07 Send private message

DonGould:

If you use this drive to do a monthly back up then the above process is reasonable.  If you do a weekly back up with this drive then it's a bit touch a go.  As a general rule I think that missing 1 cycle of usage is reasonable to miss.  2 cycles is getting a bit less 'reasonable'.

If you use the drive for a daily back up or you're using the drive all the time as a data store or serving content to your media systems then none of the above is reasonable from the point of view of usage.

A retailer can't impose 'unreasonable' terms from their suppliers on you.  That is the whole point of the CGA.

So, the key issue here in your favour is if they can sort out the problem in a reasonable amount of time.  How they do that is their business, not yours.  Your entitlement is simply that it is done in a reasonable amount of time.




I agree with everything mentioned earlier, except your point, Don, about daily back ups. I realise you may only be providing examples, but I do not think it is considered reasonable use of a HDD for a 'consumer' to be doing daily backups. I think you have moved from 'consumer' into business use there, and the CGA will no longer apply. And even the warranty conditions may differ for a business customer.

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  Reply # 700639 13-Oct-2012 13:39 Send private message

rscole86: I do not think it is considered reasonable use of a HDD for a 'consumer' to be doing daily backups.


Ok, I'm not a lawyer, but this is covered under the act as well iirc.

It's the sellers job to identify the intended use of the item and to make clear any unintended purpose.

In to days world of email being important, I very much disagree.  Currently I have a $175,000 dollar building with $120,000 dollars of damage to it, so any email I get from insurance or EQC is really important to me, so I have Crash Plan running all the time to make sure we back up our data just in case.

With a small child we also take photos most days and make video quite often, so again, I'm doing daily back ups.

I expect that many parents have kids at home now doing school and uni assignments on their computers and consider it very important to do nightly back ups of those.  I've read horror stories in the press about students who have lost an entire years work because they had back ups in the same school bag as their laptop when it got stolen.

I think you're out of touch with todays modern world and where we're heading if you think a daily back up is unreasonable for a consumer.

For business I agree daily is also becoming unreasonable and they should be looking at real time, which is what Crash Plan is great for.

rscole86:
I think you have moved from 'consumer' into business use there, and the CGA will no longer apply. And even the warranty conditions may differ for a business customer.


Yes if we're talking business here then I totally agree... the guy doesn't have a leg and has to just want per the terms of what ever agreement was in place when he purchased it.






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  Reply # 700665 13-Oct-2012 14:52 Send private message

DonGould: I expect that many parents have kids at home now doing school and uni assignments on their computers and consider it very important to do nightly back ups of those.

Really? I expect that many parents have kids at home now doing school and uni assignments and don't give backups (daily, weekly or otherwise) a second thought.

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  Reply # 700672 13-Oct-2012 15:19 Send private message

If you're relying on backups that much and doing them daily then you should have more than one backup device or backup online as well.
Having only one USB drive for your backups is still asking for trouble.
Eg the drive is attached to the machine and you have to get out of the house a hurry due to fire. Where's your backup now?





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  Reply # 700675 13-Oct-2012 15:41 Send private message

Getting way off topic here guys.

The issue is what protection the OP has under the CGA.

All I'm suggesting is that if this drive is used daily by the OP, for what ever reason, then it's reasonable to assume the unit is sorted out in 2 days, not 3 weeks no mater what condition the wholesaler places on the retailer.

If the OP is using this drive from month to month, then it's reasonable for them to accept 2 months to get it sorted.

If the OP is using the drive all day (and why they would be doing that I don't know, but if they are) then the only reasonable thing for the retailer to do is a straight swap as they simply can't fix it in a 'reasonable time' based on use.





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  Reply # 700681 13-Oct-2012 15:51 Send private message

I did some papers on retailer rights under the consumer guarantees act and I'm pretty sure your wrong. The retailer has the right to remedy weather that be repair, replace or refund but they also have to do it under an acceptable period of time, it has absolutely nothing to do with how often the customer uses it. I sell cellphones under your logic I would be out of business, a fair time to wait is normally about 10 working days, however if we fail to meet this we will normally offer compensation or replacement. A retailer has the right to check that the customer has miss used this product. If you feel it is taking to long you should submit in writing that you want a remedy with X amount of days, if they repair and you feel the repair done is sub standard you can reject the goods there and then and request a replacement or refund they have no right to refuse this request.

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  Reply # 700682 13-Oct-2012 15:59 Send private message

DonGould: Getting way off topic here guys.

The issue is what protection the OP has under the CGA.

All I'm suggesting is that if this drive is used daily by the OP, for what ever reason, then it's reasonable to assume the unit is sorted out in 2 days, not 3 weeks no mater what condition the wholesaler places on the retailer.

If the OP is using this drive from month to month, then it's reasonable for them to accept 2 months to get it sorted.

If the OP is using the drive all day (and why they would be doing that I don't know, but if they are) then the only reasonable thing for the retailer to do is a straight swap as they simply can't fix it in a 'reasonable time' based on use.


It's right on topic, because "reasonable" is not what the OP deems reasonable based on his use, it's what the average consumer would consider reasonable. The average consumer is probably not relying on their external harddrive on a daily basis so it would be unreasonable to assume the retailer should give you an immediate replacement.

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  Reply # 700686 13-Oct-2012 16:41 Send private message

Exactly. I use my tv every day but, if it needed to be repaired, under the cga the store wouldn't have to give me a new one in a day or two just because I use it every day.




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  Reply # 700694 13-Oct-2012 17:03 Send private message

bazzer:  It's right on topic, because "reasonable" is not what the OP deems reasonable based on his use, it's what the average consumer would consider reasonable. The average consumer is probably not relying on their external harddrive on a daily basis so it would be unreasonable to assume the retailer should give you an immediate replacement.


From:  http://www.consumeraffairs.govt.nz/for-business/by-business-type/motor-vehicle-traders-1/consumer-guarantees-act-for-motor-vehicle-traders

What is a reasonable time for carrying out a repair?A reasonable time to fix a problem is not defined in the CGA. It will depend on the type of vehicle and the nature of the problem. For a vehicle that is in daily use by the consumer, a reasonable time may only be a few days. If the repair takes a longer time, you can offer a courtesy vehicle to the consumer.


That specific page goes on to talking about gaining agreement with the customer.

You are also quite right that it talks about the retailer being allowed a reasonable amount of time to make their repairs and prove out the fault.

The act also talks about goods being fit for purpose and of salable quality.

In this case, the OP is telling us that he's only had this drive for 7 months.  That would suggest that the goods were not of salable quality. 

It's reasonable for anyone to expect 3 years service from a hard drive, they have a 100,000 MTBF on them, if not more.






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