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  Reply # 762380 14-Feb-2013 15:19 Send private message

spacedog: So is this a change in the language of the licensing agreement or has it actually integrated into the activation/registration modules within Office 2013? One thing is the language of the license and MS having the ability to enforce it as they so choose. It's another thing to institute software measures that truly block the user from uninstalling it and moving it to a new computer (without having to resort to illegal cracks/hacks).

If they truly tie it to each machine via the activation/registration modules and bar users from moving Office from their old laptop to their new laptop, I can see this going straight into a class-action lawsuit in the USA.

I can think of a whole bunch of scenarios where this is a problem for everyday users, such as:

-Joe Bloggs buys a new laptop, buys Office 2013 and three weeks later the motherboard fails and he sends it back to the supplier. Their solution is to give Joe a new computer (or the hardware repairs are significant enough that MS Office thinks Joe's repaired laptop is a 'new computer). Joe has to buy a new copy of Office?

-Joe's laptop is on it's last legs, but he needs Office now. He buys Office 2013 and 3 months later he's able to afford a new laptop. He has to buy Office again?

I don't know exactly how the laws work here in NZ, but I can guarantee you that won't fly in the USA. That'll get class-actioned in a heartbeat.


Nonsense. There will be no class action suit. PKC licenses and OEM before them had clauses that were exactly the same. No Lawsuit then. If you agree to it and it's not unlawful you can't easily file suit. Do you really think a company with as many lawyers employed as MS would make their largest revenue generating product unlawful so blatantly. 

The best thing you can do, is find a local MS Rep and let them know how you feel and how it impacts them (as they will lose a sale) and if enough people do it, and they lose money, they MIGHT change their mind, though MS has been particularly belligerent lately so I wouldn't expect it to occur overnight.



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  Reply # 762392 14-Feb-2013 15:35 Send private message

Does that mean the 'buy it for a pc and be able to install it on a laptop' option has gone as well? I think this was the case with 2010 business edition, 1 user 2PCs or something like that.

I too will stick with 2010 for home. Mainly because I found in Outlook 2013 I could only view todays appointments without switching to calendar view (I use the to-do bar quite a bit). A small thing, but enough to break my workflow and cause distraction. Eventually I suspect I will get used to the new way - but outside of software development I am not the most change centric person.

I wonder if it is part of a strategy to push everything into the cloud, if so, then I am not liking it and I wonder how it will effect others that don't want to/cant use the cloud. One would have thought that running effective online and offline strategies side by side would have been the most optimal way to capture the market. Personally, I am not keen on paying monthly subscription fees for cloud software, nor am I keen on paying to access my own data (either cloud fees or internet fees).





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  Reply # 762396 14-Feb-2013 15:38 Send private message

Upgraded to MS Office 2010 from 2003 mid to late last year, while some things are better, actually I liked 2003 better, there's no way I'd even consider 2013. I don't think many of the changes with 2010 are a step forward for many users and I can't see 2013 being any better.




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  Reply # 762423 14-Feb-2013 16:04 Send private message

freitasm: My Office 2010 on Windows 7 makes me perfectly happy...


Agreed,

Vista was decent but irritating at times and had fairly clear-cut work that needed to be completed to get it up to scratch.

Office 2007 I just plain never liked although got used to it eventually and it just plain needed cleaning up, Plus it was ugly.

Windows 7 I have loved from Alpha/Beta, It included all the components that needed to be cleaned up from Vista to get it perfect and a few upgrades too.

Office 2010 came out looking like a cleaned up 2007 like I hoped and I have liked it ever since although the ribbon still seems stupid.

Windows 8 has now come out and unlike vista does not even have a clear path of what needs to be done to get it usable, In the respect of UI it has completely undone every step they have made this far.

Office 2013 just looks like 2010 without transparency and seems like a whole pile of why bother.

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  Reply # 762432 14-Feb-2013 16:12 Send private message

networkn:

Nonsense. There will be no class action suit. PKC licenses and OEM before them had clauses that were exactly the same. No Lawsuit then. If you agree to it and it's not unlawful you can't easily file suit. Do you really think a company with as many lawyers employed as MS would make their largest revenue generating product unlawful so blatantly. 

The best thing you can do, is find a local MS Rep and let them know how you feel and how it impacts them (as they will lose a sale) and if enough people do it, and they lose money, they MIGHT change their mind, though MS has been particularly belligerent lately so I wouldn't expect it to occur overnight.




I appreciate your opinion that a class-action is nonsense, but I think your example is flawed and I respectfully disagree.  A company like MS can have lots of lawyers employed and still get class-actioned and lose.  It happens in the USA all the time.  Citibank, AT&T, and Verizon to name just a few. All those firms have big legal departments and have lost on class-actions.

Regardless of the hypotheticals of future actions, does anyone have any comment about the technical aspect?

Is this about the language in user license only? Or are there changes in the registration/activation software components that will truly tie a license to one system?

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  Reply # 762442 14-Feb-2013 16:18 Send private message

Seeing the $859 price tag at DSE might put anyone off buying one copy let alone figure out the licensing arrangements.

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  Reply # 762443 14-Feb-2013 16:18 Send private message

> Joe Bloggs buys a new laptop, buys Office 2013 and three weeks later the motherboard fails and he sends it back to the
> supplier. Their solution is to give Joe a new computer (or the hardware repairs are significant enough that MS Office thinks
> Joe's repaired laptop is a 'new computer). Joe has to buy a new copy of Office?

> Joe's laptop is on it's last legs, but he needs Office now. He buys Office 2013 and 3 months later he's able to afford a new
> laptop. He has to buy Office again?

I have personally been in both of these situations. Additionally I am somewhat of a hardware enthusiast so my main home desktop PC gets upgraded on a very regular basis.

In the case of upgrading components and the situations described above I have simply proceeded to re-activate which, when that fails due to the licensing, leads you on to ring Micro$oft's NZ based 0800 number.

In all cases over at least the last 10 years, on a very regular basis, I have only ever had a pleasurable experience dealing with the MS rep and have always had my software re-licensed to the new hardware.

So in my experience, NO, Joe Bloggs does NOT need to buy an additional copy of Office. He or she just has to contact Micro$oft and explain the situation.

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  Reply # 762456 14-Feb-2013 16:25 Send private message

jim.cox: I'm no fan of the ribbon interface

I much prefer the 2003 version of office

(yeah I AM a luddite)


I still hate the ribbon. The 2003 interface was customizable, which is why I liked it. If the ribbon was customizable and could learn what things you use the most, it would be a lot better. I don't see why people upgrade office software so regularly. It is not as through there are that many new features between editions. Compatibility is probably the main reason, and people getting it free, very cheap. But at the full price, I wouldn't upgrade.

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  Reply # 762528 14-Feb-2013 17:43 Send private message

6 months, no way! Businesses especially run older tech.





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  Reply # 762540 14-Feb-2013 18:11 Send private message

Windows 7 and Office 2010 all the way. Having used both Windows 8 and Office 2013 in Beta - I have zero interest in upgrading.

To whomever is getting a new work PC every 6 months - I can tell you that is not the norm. 3-4 years is pretty common for both the people I have worked for, and the clients I have worked with over the last decade.

Also, corporates don't generally by individual licences, they will have volume agreements which are generally X copies can be installed at any given time.




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  Reply # 762559 14-Feb-2013 18:42 Send private message

Is this new license agreement / rule written on the retail box?
If not what's going to happen when you buy it, take it home, open the box and start installing it then read the EULA (yea right!) and see that you can't move it to another PC later?
No way you could take it back to the shop now that's been opened!




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  Reply # 762659 14-Feb-2013 21:41 Send private message

CYaBro: Is this new license agreement / rule written on the retail box?
If not what's going to happen when you buy it, take it home, open the box and start installing it then read the EULA (yea right!) and see that you can't move it to another PC later?
No way you could take it back to the shop now that's been opened!


Thats a good point. I presume retailers may have to accept returns under the FTA if restrictions are not adequately disclosed at purchase. 
It sounds like the new license is similar to an OEM license, where the license is tied to the PC, and  should be a lot cheaper.



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  Reply # 762673 14-Feb-2013 22:01 Send private message

CYaBro: Is this new license agreement / rule written on the retail box?
If not what's going to happen when you buy it, take it home, open the box and start installing it then read the EULA (yea right!) and see that you can't move it to another PC later?
No way you could take it back to the shop now that's been opened!


Actually you can. It's part of the EULA. You can return any MS Retail product that has not been installed for a full refund to your retailer and they will refund you and MS will in turn refund them no questions asked IF you don't agree to the EULA.

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  Reply # 762674 14-Feb-2013 22:06 Send private message

networkn:
CYaBro: Is this new license agreement / rule written on the retail box?
If not what's going to happen when you buy it, take it home, open the box and start installing it then read the EULA (yea right!) and see that you can't move it to another PC later?
No way you could take it back to the shop now that's been opened!


Actually you can. It's part of the EULA. You can return any MS Retail product that has not been installed for a full refund to your retailer and they will refund you and MS will in turn refund them no questions asked IF you don't agree to the EULA.



Warehouse stationary don't accept software returns if you read their terms. There are possibly others too. They blame the copyright laws according to their returns page. Although you can't copy office without the key, and it has to be activated by microsoft when it is first used. They would have to check this when it is returned, that it hasn't been activated before giving a refund. Another good reasons to stick to office 2010, or 2007, which I still use too.



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  Reply # 762675 14-Feb-2013 22:15 Send private message

mattwnz:
networkn:
CYaBro: Is this new license agreement / rule written on the retail box?
If not what's going to happen when you buy it, take it home, open the box and start installing it then read the EULA (yea right!) and see that you can't move it to another PC later?
No way you could take it back to the shop now that's been opened!


Actually you can. It's part of the EULA. You can return any MS Retail product that has not been installed for a full refund to your retailer and they will refund you and MS will in turn refund them no questions asked IF you don't agree to the EULA.



Warehouse stationary don't accept software returns if you read their terms. There are possibly others too. They blame the copyright laws according to their returns page. Although you can't copy office without the key, and it has to be activated by microsoft when it is first used. They would have to check this when it is returned, that it hasn't been activated before giving a refund. Another good reasons to stick to office 2010, or 2007, which I still use too.


I am about 80% sure, that being a MS reseller you are required to agree to accept returns on software which has not been installed because the end user doesn't accept the EULA, I believe you can also approach MS directly for that refund.

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