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  Reply # 960144 1-Jan-2014 22:39 Send private message

I'm late to the party, but why I hadn't "tried" Windows Phone (8) is the predictability of Microsoft orphaning their mobile OS. I've had Pocket PC, Windows Mobile and Windows Phone 7, all of which were ungraciously dumped by Microsoft and I expect the same for WP8.

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  Reply # 960199 2-Jan-2014 10:09 One person supports this post Send private message

Good point about the past but I think that it is largely irrelevant. There's one important difference with the new products: Windows Phone apps are not isolated on a desert island platform.

Mobile PC-compatible technology in general is a long list of dead ends where we were often stranded waiting to be rescued. Those experiences convinced me to give up being an early adopter.

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  Reply # 960437 2-Jan-2014 22:28 Send private message

It's not a desert island now, but give it a year, just look at how short WP7 lifespan was.

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  Reply # 960440 2-Jan-2014 22:40 Send private message

Currently Windows Phone is the only platform where you can buy a low end device (Lumia 520) working on the same OS platform as the entire OS product range. Similarly priced Android devices run OS versions generations old, and iOS really offers no low end lead in.
As a business model to grow the platform customer base, it's smart. (Well it beats the Blackberry way - treading water on an outgoing tide over quicksand)
Microsoft just up to stick with it......

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  Reply # 960493 3-Jan-2014 01:36 2 people support this post Send private message

oxnsox: Currently Windows Phone is the only platform where you can buy a low end device (Lumia 520) working on the same OS platform as the entire OS product range. Similarly priced Android devices run OS versions generations old, and iOS really offers no low end lead in.


This kind of sentiment is getting a lot of play in this thread, it's no longer true though. Read some Moto G reviews...




Twitter: @nztechfreak
Blogs: AndroidNZ.net


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  Reply # 960510 3-Jan-2014 08:30 Send private message

NZtechfreak:
oxnsox: Currently Windows Phone is the only platform where you can buy a low end device (Lumia 520) working on the same OS platform as the entire OS product range. Similarly priced Android devices run OS versions generations old, and iOS really offers no low end lead in.


This kind of sentiment is getting a lot of play in this thread, it's no longer true though. Read some Moto G reviews...

I think though, that this is a particular issue for Android as a whole.
The general buying public DO see a fractured ecosystem and either don't mind and jump aboard anyway, or go with another platfrom.
There ARE an awful lot of quite cheap, lowly-specced Android phones out there and that is not a dig at Android, nor low-priced phones...it's a fact.

BUT - just like I wouldn't buy a low-end (read OLD) iOS device, I would also not buy a low end Android, even if it had the latest OS - there is a PERCEPTION that the low end gets left behind rapidly in Android world...this is not the case in WP8, from the casual glance.

THis is where I think WP8 can really start to make some in-roads...by allowing the low-end/crap specs/outdated tech Android myth to continue.




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  Reply # 960518 3-Jan-2014 08:45 One person supports this post Send private message

Handsomedan:
NZtechfreak:
oxnsox: Currently Windows Phone is the only platform where you can buy a low end device (Lumia 520) working on the same OS platform as the entire OS product range. Similarly priced Android devices run OS versions generations old, and iOS really offers no low end lead in.


This kind of sentiment is getting a lot of play in this thread, it's no longer true though. Read some Moto G reviews...

I think though, that this is a particular issue for Android as a whole.
The general buying public DO see a fractured ecosystem and either don't mind and jump aboard anyway, or go with another platfrom.
There ARE an awful lot of quite cheap, lowly-specced Android phones out there and that is not a dig at Android, nor low-priced phones...it's a fact.

BUT - just like I wouldn't buy a low-end (read OLD) iOS device, I would also not buy a low end Android, even if it had the latest OS - there is a PERCEPTION that the low end gets left behind rapidly in Android world...this is not the case in WP8, from the casual glance.

THis is where I think WP8 can really start to make some in-roads...by allowing the low-end/crap specs/outdated tech Android myth to continue.


Good points, I agree. A new WP that is low end, and has the latest OS and I assume can get the next version easily enough, like iOS, sounds like a good strategy. Thats an offering Android or iOS do not offer. Android offers the lower costs well, iOS offers the updateability well, neither do both. WP thus can fill a gap

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  Reply # 960525 3-Jan-2014 09:10 Send private message

NZtechfreak:
oxnsox: Currently Windows Phone is the only platform where you can buy a low end device (Lumia 520) working on the same OS platform as the entire OS product range. Similarly priced Android devices run OS versions generations old, and iOS really offers no low end lead in.


This kind of sentiment is getting a lot of play in this thread, it's no longer true though. Read some Moto G reviews...


To an extent I agree with you, but the Moto G is still not officially offered in NZ AFAIK, and an imported one still costs a decent chunk more than the Lumia 520.  Yes it has better specs, but that IMO makes it a low-mid range device, not an entry level one.  The key to the 520's success is it feels just as fluid to use as a 1020.

EG:
http://www.expansys.co.nz/motorola-moto-g-xt1032-unlocked-8gb-black-256960/
http://www.expansys.co.nz/nokia-lumia-520-unlocked-cyan-247072/
http://store.telecom.co.nz/mobile/personal/phone-details/nokia-lumia-520-black/

The fact you can buy it unlocked through Amazon slightly cheaper than above is pretty irrelevant as 90%+ of people wouldn't parallel import a phone.  Many wouldn't buy a phone that's not from their carrier (just ask those with 2Degrees Note 3's trying to use Telecom 4G why....).  So I feel it's getting better, but there is still some truth to it.




All opinions are mine and mine alone, and do not represent the opinion of Spark.

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  Reply # 960535 3-Jan-2014 09:27 Send private message

it is potentially a moot point as once upon a time all ios devices were on the same OS, I am sure there will come a time where a low end WP8 phone can not be upgraded to current OS, it took apple what five generations to become fragmented but it will happen i hate to say.

Android OS is an out of control beast which will never win the antifragmentation battle, apple is loosing grip and well WP8 has a couple of glory years to market this top to toe common OS :P

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  Reply # 960571 3-Jan-2014 10:21 Send private message

Wade: it is potentially a moot point as once upon a time all ios devices were on the same OS, I am sure there will come a time where a low end WP8 phone can not be upgraded to current OS, it took apple what five generations to become fragmented but it will happen i hate to say.

Android OS is an out of control beast which will never win the antifragmentation battle, apple is loosing grip and well WP8 has a couple of glory years to market this top to toe common OS :P


Losing grip? You cannot expect any brand to keep all devives on the latest OS, I would harsdly call that fragmentation

To me, fragmenation is multi screen sizes, multi resolutions. Apple only has a good handfull of these, but no issue supporting the devices. I once read Android had 130 odd

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  Reply # 960579 3-Jan-2014 10:37 Send private message

Fragmentation happens when the majority of people are on different versions of operating systems.
There is a little bit of fragmentation between iOS6 and iOS7, but the majority are on iOS7. All iOS devices sold now can be upgraded to iOS7.
Android however, you still have phones in store selling Android 2.1,2.3,3,4. (and this is why I hate developing for android, too many API's to target all phones effectively) The only fragmentation Microsoft has currently is the Windows Phone 7/8 divide - in the future this will become bigger with a Windows Phone 9 or equivalent.. however by that time nobody really will be using Windows Phone 7 and if they do it correctly so they will have a two point fragmentation like Apple seems to go with.

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  Reply # 960600 3-Jan-2014 11:21 Send private message

Interesting, I believed the huge number of phone sizes, resolutions made it difficult to make an Android OS version available to every phone. Same applies to iOS but they only have a handful of variations so its not an issue. Apple only drops versions after quite some time due to features not available due to new hardware, or the older phones will not perform well under a newer OS

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  Reply # 960602 3-Jan-2014 11:24 Send private message

I don't consider the Windows Phone 7/8 "divide" comparable to the Android or iOS versions (fragments for one reason, many (I admit, not all) applications on previous versions of Android and iOS can be run on the current versions. MS ones cannot. When MS cross the divide, everyone has to start again (see my previous post as to why I resisted "trying" Windows Phone (8)).

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  Reply # 960604 3-Jan-2014 11:29 Send private message

lyonrouge: I don't consider the Windows Phone 7/8 "divide" comparable to the Android or iOS versions (fragments for one reason, many (I admit, not all) applications on previous versions of Android and iOS can be run on the current versions. MS ones cannot. When MS cross the divide, everyone has to start again (see my previous post as to why I resisted "trying" Windows Phone (8)).

Actually I agree with you there - it's not like a new phone comes out with a slightly newer version of software and there's an upgrade path...it simply was a move from one platform to another...like an entirely different OS...

Maybe this is the start of a different era? one where the older WP8 phones will be able to update to the newer OS for a time before becoming obsolete, just like iOS and Android.






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  Reply # 960619 3-Jan-2014 11:53 One person supports this post Send private message

Handsomedan:
lyonrouge: I don't consider the Windows Phone 7/8 "divide" comparable to the Android or iOS versions (fragments for one reason, many (I admit, not all) applications on previous versions of Android and iOS can be run on the current versions. MS ones cannot. When MS cross the divide, everyone has to start again (see my previous post as to why I resisted "trying" Windows Phone (8)).

Actually I agree with you there - it's not like a new phone comes out with a slightly newer version of software and there's an upgrade path...it simply was a move from one platform to another...like an entirely different OS...

Maybe this is the start of a different era? one where the older WP8 phones will be able to update to the newer OS for a time before becoming obsolete, just like iOS and Android.




I have little confidence that will be the case.

Having owned and been abandoned through the Pocket PC (HTC Jasjar), Windows Mobile 6 (HTC Touch Diamond and TytnII ) and Windows Phone 7 (HTC Trophy). I didn't choose WP8, I chose a camera phone that happened to have WP8, it was WP8 that put me off the whole line (Lumia) for so long.

If they follow the tradition, there will be one or two point releases then death. In Windows Mobile 6 my devices never got an upgrade path, even within the version. For Windows Phone 7, I got one or two upgrades to the point release (7.5) but that took a very long time due to the crazy carrier lock-in model. They have repeated the recipe of the other abandoned endeavours, carrier lock-in and vendor binding, (i.e. Amber) so I expect the same outcome, however, at least this time I have gone into it with a clear understanding of the hopelessness of WP8 future.

At this stage WP8, in my view, is not comparable to iOS or Android because it is too young and has not had to live with concurrent versions (and I expect it never will, as above).

p.s. if I get 8.1, then WP9 (or whatever they call it) arrives and I can upgrade my 1020 to it, I will happily return to this forum and admit I was wrong.

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