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  Reply # 960650 3-Jan-2014 12:55 Send private message quote this post

Paulthagerous:
NZtechfreak:
oxnsox: Currently Windows Phone is the only platform where you can buy a low end device (Lumia 520) working on the same OS platform as the entire OS product range. Similarly priced Android devices run OS versions generations old, and iOS really offers no low end lead in.


This kind of sentiment is getting a lot of play in this thread, it's no longer true though. Read some Moto G reviews...


To an extent I agree with you, but the Moto G is still not officially offered in NZ AFAIK, and an imported one still costs a decent chunk more than the Lumia 520.  Yes it has better specs, but that IMO makes it a low-mid range device, not an entry level one.


In markets where both are sold they are pretty well identically priced, which makes the Moto G a much better buy than the 520.




Twitter: @nztechfreak
Blogs: AndroidNZ.net


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  Reply # 960660 3-Jan-2014 13:03 Send private message quote this post

NZtechfreak:
Paulthagerous:
NZtechfreak:
oxnsox: Currently Windows Phone is the only platform where you can buy a low end device (Lumia 520) working on the same OS platform as the entire OS product range. Similarly priced Android devices run OS versions generations old, and iOS really offers no low end lead in.


This kind of sentiment is getting a lot of play in this thread, it's no longer true though. Read some Moto G reviews...


To an extent I agree with you, but the Moto G is still not officially offered in NZ AFAIK, and an imported one still costs a decent chunk more than the Lumia 520.  Yes it has better specs, but that IMO makes it a low-mid range device, not an entry level one.


In markets where both are sold they are pretty well identically priced, which makes the Moto G a much better buy than the 520.


The MotoG is a very good device and is 10/10 for value especially given it has 1GB of Ram, however I still believe that the 520 is very good and shows how good WP8 is on lower spec devices given its  512MB Ram.




KiwiNZ

 Interesting. You're afraid of insects and women. Ladybugs must render you catatonic.

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  Reply # 960686 3-Jan-2014 13:40 Send private message quote this post

Someone raised the point about OS fragmentation. Have a good read of this article which sums it up really well http://www.phonearena.com/Android-vs-iOS  
For those who don't want to read, here's the result    



Or simplified into major versions:

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  Reply # 960694 3-Jan-2014 14:02 Send private message quote this post

Ok, so the graphs show that Android is less fragmented than iOS? So why does it take an age, or never to get an update on every Android phone? Ive always read that the huge number of variables was the issue, too hard to cater for phones with many different screen sizes and resolutions. What I have always read is fragmentation is those large numbers of variants. iOS for example has very few size/res variants, so easy to create apps to cover everyone and allow everyone to participate in new OS versions, apart from very old hardware. That was my belief anyway

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  Reply # 960701 3-Jan-2014 14:10 Send private message quote this post

In context to this thread, Android and iOS have fragmentation and WP8 does not, so it **shouldn't** barrier to entry, so what is stopping people "trying" it.

The two seem to be:

cost of change (device and learning)
inability to "try" (not many friends have one for other friends to experiment with)

Comments indicate the device costs are coming down, which leaves the latter, which is a chicken and egg scenario.

my reason for resistance (version orphaning) does not appear to have been a barrier to any other GZoners.

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  Reply # 960703 3-Jan-2014 14:15 Send private message quote this post

lyonrouge: In context to this thread, Android and iOS have fragmentation and WP8 does not, so it **shouldn't** barrier to entry, so what is stopping people "trying" it.

The two seem to be:

cost of change (device and learning)
inability to "try" (not many friends have one for other friends to experiment with)

Comments indicate the device costs are coming down, which leaves the latter, which is a chicken and egg scenario.

my reason for resistance (version orphaning) does not appear to have been a barrier to any other GZoners.


I huge chuck of cellphone users are sub 25, and even sub 20 and affected by the must have what everyone else has syndrome. As the age groups go up the requirement is influenced a lot by work requirements.

As for orphaning, the life span of a Cellphone would seem to average 24 months before replacement is considered or required, if by then the OS desire or availability has changed then I will change. I will always use what does the best job at that time.




KiwiNZ

 Interesting. You're afraid of insects and women. Ladybugs must render you catatonic.

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  Reply # 960704 3-Jan-2014 14:17 Send private message quote this post

NZtechfreak:
Paulthagerous:
NZtechfreak:
oxnsox: Currently Windows Phone is the only platform where you can buy a low end device (Lumia 520) working on the same OS platform as the entire OS product range. Similarly priced Android devices run OS versions generations old, and iOS really offers no low end lead in.


This kind of sentiment is getting a lot of play in this thread, it's no longer true though. Read some Moto G reviews...


To an extent I agree with you, but the Moto G is still not officially offered in NZ AFAIK, and an imported one still costs a decent chunk more than the Lumia 520.  Yes it has better specs, but that IMO makes it a low-mid range device, not an entry level one.


In markets where both are sold they are pretty well identically priced, which makes the Moto G a much better buy than the 520.


If the 8GB Moto G was to retail officially here for $299 or under (ideally the same $199 the Lumia 520 retails for) then I would agree it wipes the floor with the 520.  It is definitely a superior device IMO, and I am a keen Android user myself.  And in the global context it is definitely challenging the stereotype.  But it is having very little effect in the local market, and won't until (or if) it is released officially here.

Hopefully we do see it here before too long, with a big advertising campaign behind it, because it deserves a lot of success.  We will have to wait and see.




All opinions are mine and mine alone, and do not represent the opinion of Telecom.

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  Reply # 960706 3-Jan-2014 14:18 Send private message quote this post

I'll put another out there, "compelling point of difference".

I was on Symbian, then went to Android because it supported multiple exchange accounts, and was cheaper than an iPhone, but still tethered (WP7 at the time did not). I then went to iOS because of Airplay, although there were AirPlay compatible Android clients, they did not have the integration is iOS.

I've not seem a feature or function in WP8 that draws me to it. Maybe they will release a Windows ecosystem integration that will wow us? Maybe a AppleTV clone driven from WP8 OS, or an seem less Media Server? I don't have an XBOX but i believe there is some coupling there?

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  Reply # 960708 3-Jan-2014 14:19 Send private message quote this post

lyonrouge: I don't consider the Windows Phone 7/8 "divide" comparable to the Android or iOS versions (fragments for one reason, many (I admit, not all) applications on previous versions of Android and iOS can be run on the current versions. MS ones cannot. When MS cross the divide, everyone has to start again (see my previous post as to why I resisted "trying" Windows Phone (8)).


Not true, Windows Phone 7 applications can be run on Windows Phone 8. Windows Phone 8 apps however, can not be run on Windows Phone 7.

lyonrouge:
carrier lock-in model. 

If you get a Lumia phone you can update your phone to the latest version with a developer account without having to wait for your carrier to slap branding on it and approve the update.



The reason Windows Phone 7 phones could not be upgraded is because they didn't meet the minimum specifications (all WP7 phones hand a single core etc) and it was a major overhall of the back-end architecture. (from Windows CE to the NT Kernel, making things easier to develop between Xbox, Windows 8 and windows phone 8) One of the strengths of the windows phone platform is knowing that no matter what phone you get, it will be fast enough not to lag. (unlike cheap android phones or iPhone 4's running on iOS7)



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  Reply # 960710 3-Jan-2014 14:20 Send private message quote this post

lyonrouge: I'll put another out there, "compelling point of difference".

I was on Symbian, then went to Android because it supported multiple exchange accounts, and was cheaper than an iPhone, but still tethered (WP7 at the time did not). I then went to iOS because of Airplay, although there were AirPlay compatible Android clients, they did not have the integration is iOS.

I've not seem a feature or function in WP8 that draws me to it. Maybe they will release a Windows ecosystem integration that will wow us? Maybe a AppleTV clone driven from WP8 OS, or an seem less Media Server? I don't have an XBOX but i believe there is some coupling there?
 

Glass works well with the xbox 360 and xbox one




KiwiNZ

 Interesting. You're afraid of insects and women. Ladybugs must render you catatonic.

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  Reply # 960714 3-Jan-2014 14:25 One person supports this post Send private message quote this post

tdgeek: Ok, so the graphs show that Android is less fragmented than iOS? So why does it take an age, or never to get an update on every Android phone? Ive always read that the huge number of variables was the issue, too hard to cater for phones with many different screen sizes and resolutions. What I have always read is fragmentation is those large numbers of variants. iOS for example has very few size/res variants, so easy to create apps to cover everyone and allow everyone to participate in new OS versions, apart from very old hardware. That was my belief anyway


Not quite, looking at major revisions cannot be done in comparison for iOS when it comes to Android because the iOS versions all share one API. Where android minor versions usually cannot be updated unless the vendor supported it, and have a separate API.

At time of writing, there are 19 different API's you can use to target different platforms of Android, with 16 being supported.
Apple has seven, with two being supported.
Windows Phone has five, with two being supported.

So yes, Android is much more fragmented than iOS. It's the reason why getting any other Android phone but a Nexus in my opinion is silly if you want to stay current. (as Nexus phones are baseline phones and always get recent updates)

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  Reply # 960719 3-Jan-2014 14:30 One person supports this post Send private message quote this post

Handsomedan:
lyonrouge: I don't consider the Windows Phone 7/8 "divide" comparable to the Android or iOS versions (fragments for one reason, many (I admit, not all) applications on previous versions of Android and iOS can be run on the current versions. MS ones cannot. When MS cross the divide, everyone has to start again (see my previous post as to why I resisted "trying" Windows Phone (8)).

Actually I agree with you there - it's not like a new phone comes out with a slightly newer version of software and there's an upgrade path...it simply was a move from one platform to another...like an entirely different OS...

Maybe this is the start of a different era? one where the older WP8 phones will be able to update to the newer OS for a time before becoming obsolete, just like iOS and Android.




It is indeed!

"In March 2013, Microsoft announced that updates for the Windows Phone 8 operating system would be made available through July 8, 2014. Microsoft pushed support up to 36 months, announcing that updates for the Windows Phone 8 operating system would be made available through January 12, 2016. Windows Phone 8 devices will be upgradeable to the next edition of Windows Phone, unlike Windows Phone 7.x devices, which were not upgradeable to Windows Phone 8"

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  Reply # 960721 3-Jan-2014 14:32 Send private message quote this post

Announcements and materialisation can be quite disparate.

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  Reply # 960736 3-Jan-2014 14:35 Send private message quote this post

tdgeek: Ok, so the graphs show that Android is less fragmented than iOS? So why does it take an age, or never to get an update on every Android phone? Ive always read that the huge number of variables was the issue, too hard to cater for phones with many different screen sizes and resolutions.


It has nothing to do with screen size and resolution... Android scales. It was designed with this in mind.
The reason it takes ages is that Google give the update to the manufacturer, if they want to/can update, it then gets sent to the carriers, and if they pass it, it goes back to the manufacturer for roll-out.
Most times, it's the manufacturer that doesn't update, probably because (if it's not a flagship), a) they can't economically re-write their drivers, b) chip manufacturers no longer support old chipsets and don't write drivers anymore, c) it runs fine as it is, and d) low-end users probably wouldn't know the difference.
Google now push out security fixes and other major things through the play store. A new version is not required to keep Android secure.

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  Reply # 960737 3-Jan-2014 14:35 Send private message quote this post

lyonrouge: Announcements and materialisation can be quite disparate.

I'd like to see your case against it. Announcements from the companies themselves are generally more reliable than one persons musings.
I really don't think they will take the architecture away from NT - makes sense to have an upgrade path to Windows Phone 9; although I wouldn't be surprised if it was a cut down version. Similar to iOS7 for iPhone 4(s).


blakamin: 
It has nothing to do with screen size and resolution... Android scales. It was designed with this in mind. 
The reason it takes ages is that Google give the update to the manufacturer, if they want to/can update, it then gets sent to the carriers, and if they pass it, it goes back to the manufacturer for roll-out. 
Most times, it's the manufacturer that doesn't update, probably because (if it's not a flagship), a) they can't economically re-write their drivers, b) chip manufacturers no longer support old chipsets and don't write drivers anymore, c) it runs fine as it is, and d) low-end users probably wouldn't know the difference. 
Google now push out security fixes and other major things through the play store. A new version is not required to keep Android secure.

Unfortunately the size of these updates make older devices nearly unusable when connected to the play store :(
Very clever of Google to release such patches though - just wish they were optional.

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