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1035 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 614518 24-Apr-2012 19:35 Send private message

sen8or: 
EB games in NZ would struggle to be in business if it weren't for 2nd hand sales, in some / many cases, their margins on used games are higher than they are on new games. When you consider that many EB games are in major malls (westfields), the rent alone would be pretty crippling, and I would hazard a guess, unsustainable without the ability to deal in used games.


I predict EB Games will soon get into trouble over sales of 2nd hand games. Last weekend I called the two local EB stores to enquire about Skyrim for xBox360 availability. Both had 2nd hand copies of Skyrim. It took several pointed questions before they admitted that they couldn't guarantee the games would install, that DLC wasn't included, and that because the license had been used it was possible that a new license would be required. 
Sooner or later they are going to sell a 2nd hand game that can only be used as a drink coaster. 

As to the OP - EA is in one business only, the business of making money. If a single-use license if what they offer then you either accept their offer and play by their rules or find another gaming studio that has a few more clues. EA will keep trying to kill the 2nd hand market as long as people keep accepting their terms and keep paying them. The only way this may change is if the market talks by walking. 


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Geek


  Reply # 614595 24-Apr-2012 21:32 Send private message

Publishers want to minimise the sale of second hand games. Publishers don't get anything from second hand games. Gamers must keep this in mind when buying games.

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  Reply # 614610 24-Apr-2012 21:49 Send private message

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: The only people affected by copy protection and BS 'licensing terms' like this are legitimate customers who actually pay money to legally purchase software & other media.  People who illegally download their games from the Internet don't have these kinds of issues!  The sooner publishers realise that the only thing they are achieving is pi**ing off their customers the sooner they'll start making making in-roads into piracy.

When I buy a game / movie etc (ie; my own copy of the licensed content), I expect to be able to do what I want with it on my own systems or give / sell the game to someone else.  I do not expect to have to jump through 1000 fiery hoops just to be able to 'legitimately' use the product I have bought!

I seriously don't know what kind of crack these publisher are smoking!  I mean, once I've BOUGHT a game / movie, the publishers have their money, yet they see fit to inflict ridiculous restrictions on how I can use it!  It's just NUTS!

Of course the other option (which is probably the best of both worlds) is to do what some people I know of do: buy the game / movie, put it carefully on your bookshelf, then download the pirated version and play that!  LOL

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  Reply # 614619 24-Apr-2012 21:58 Send private message

SamF: I've said it before, and I'll say it again: The only people affected by copy protection and BS 'licensing terms' like this are legitimate customers who actually pay money to legally purchase software & other media.  People who illegally download their games from the Internet don't have these kinds of issues!  The sooner publishers realise that the only thing they are achieving is pi**ing off their customers the sooner they'll start making making in-roads into piracy.

When I buy a game / movie etc (ie; my own copy of the licensed content), I expect to be able to do what I want with it on my own systems or give / sell the game to someone else.  I do not expect to have to jump through 1000 fiery hoops just to be able to 'legitimately' use the product I have bought!

I seriously don't know what kind of crack these publisher are smoking!  I mean, once I've BOUGHT a game / movie, the publishers have their money, yet they see fit to inflict ridiculous restrictions on how I can use it!  It's just NUTS!

Of course the other option (which is probably the best of both worlds) is to do what some people I know of do: buy the game / movie, put it carefully on your bookshelf, then download the pirated version and play that!  LOL


the problem is the publishers don't just want your money, they want your friends money too.

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  Reply # 614620 24-Apr-2012 22:02 Send private message

Genfres: the problem is the publishers don't just want your money, they want your friends money too.


Yup, that's commonly known as GREED.  IMO they can go and get f***ed. :)

7351 posts

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  Reply # 614635 24-Apr-2012 22:28 Send private message

SamF: I've said it before, and I'll say it again: The only people affected by copy protection and BS 'licensing terms' like this are legitimate customers who actually pay money to legally purchase software & other media.? People who illegally download their games from the Internet don't have these kinds of issues!? The sooner publishers realise that the only thing they are achieving is pi**ing off their customers the sooner they'll start making making in-roads into piracy.

When I buy a game / movie etc (ie; my own copy of the licensed content), I expect to be able to do what I want with it on my own systems or give / sell the game to someone else.? I do not expect to have to jump through 1000 fiery hoops just to be able to 'legitimately' use the product I have bought!

I seriously don't know what kind of crack these publisher are smoking!? I mean, once I've BOUGHT a game / movie, the publishers have their money, yet they see fit to inflict ridiculous restrictions on how I can use it!? It's just NUTS!

Of course the other option (which is probably the best of both worlds) is to do what some people I know of do: buy the game / movie, put it carefully on your bookshelf, then download the pirated version and play that!? LOL


So true. I have spent thousands on legal licenses for software, and the only problems I have with the software are authentication problems where their systems servers have problems authenticating that you have permission to use that software. eg you may may need to deactivate the software when moving it from an old computer to a new one. Their deactivation server encounters an error when you try, so you then have to go through a whole process to get it reset with their call centre.

316 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 35


  Reply # 614780 25-Apr-2012 09:58 Send private message

SamF:
Genfres: the problem is the publishers don't just want your money, they want your friends money too.


Yup, that's commonly known as GREED.  IMO they can go and get f***ed. :)


No, that is commonly known as "business", something pretty much any business on the planet wants, more customers.

If there are issues surrounding their authentication processes for "their legitimate customers" then that is one issue, if that same process prevents breaching of their end user license agreement, then that is something else, don't confuse the two.


316 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 35


  Reply # 614782 25-Apr-2012 10:05 Send private message

mattwnz:
BraaiGuy:
sen8or: I can understand the thinking behind the "only new games benefit the publisher" bit, to a point, but used sales are an essential part of many products life cycle -

Where would car manufacturers be without used car sales?
Where would electronics companies be without sales of 2nd hand appliances / electronics on trademe etc?

Some / many of these "used sales" proceeds are indeed put straight back into new product (by the original owner), with the purchaser or the 2nd hand items "most likely" never to have been a new product buyer to begin with (whether or not that is for economic or other reasons).

EB games in NZ would struggle to be in business if it weren't for 2nd hand sales, in some / many cases, their margins on used games are higher than they are on new games. When you consider that many EB games are in major malls (westfields), the rent alone would be pretty crippling, and I would hazard a guess, unsustainable without the ability to deal in used games.

Is it shortsighted of the game company's to ignore the product life cycle, perhaps, but are they annoying "their customers" or the ones who don't want to pay "full price" for the game?



But the only thing thats used is the physical CD Disk. The software on it is not really "used" as it belongs to EA, and is probably out of date by the time you get it due to it requiring updates etc..?

If the game had no online features, required no updates every few months like the games of yesteryear then its a bit different I suppose.?

But point is, you still able to use the game without the online pass. You just unable to access the more advanced features like the online features.?



+1 . I wouldn't have any problem if I could access the game and it was fully usable in offline mode, as you do pay a big upfront fee for that. But for additional up to date online features, you have to expect to pay extra for that.
But if you buy the game and it wasn't operational at all, then I would have a problem with that.


Then your port of call for a complaint is the person/business that sold you the game, there are legal protections in place where something does not operate as it should (consumer guarantees act). Ofcourse, if you buy it from a mate / trademe etc, then this is not applicable.

I guess it depends on where you see / believe that a games company (or any other company for example) obligation finishes?

Should they support the product to anyone and everyone for the lifetime of the product, or should they cease support when the original purchaser parts possession?

I know that many appliance companies do not have transferrable warranties, so buying a 3 month old coffee machine on trademe will offer you no protection under its warranty if it craps out. This is right and wrong, bad from a brand image perspective, but, if "you" didnt buy it new, why should you expect the manufacturer to provide support?

Interesting discussion this one

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  Reply # 614790 25-Apr-2012 10:33 Send private message

sen8or:
Then your port of call for a complaint is the person/business that sold you the game, there are legal protections in place where something does not operate as it should (consumer guarantees act). Ofcourse, if you buy it from a mate / trademe etc, then this is not applicable.

I guess it depends on where you see / believe that a games company (or any other company for example) obligation finishes?

Should they support the product to anyone and everyone for the lifetime of the product, or should they cease support when the original purchaser parts possession?

I know that many appliance companies do not have transferrable warranties, so buying a 3 month old coffee machine on trademe will offer you no protection under its warranty if it craps out. This is right and wrong, bad from a brand image perspective, but, if "you" didnt buy it new, why should you expect the manufacturer to provide support?

Interesting discussion this one


I think you're missing the point there mate; why should legit, paying customers have to endure ridiculous restrictions on a product that they've legally purchased rather than just pirating it which would deprive the publisher of income?  It makes no sense!

469 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 7


  Reply # 614829 25-Apr-2012 11:44 Send private message

IMHO EA (and some other companies) have gone too far with this. In all reality I believe I should be able to walk into a store and purchase a game, go home install it and be able to play the single player campaign without even being connected to the net. (Sadly this is no longer true).

If we let this happen with games then it will soon happen to movies and music as well, and if we let it continue then why not cars and other such things. Are they not trying to make money as well? Do not all companies potentially lose money from second hand sales?

If they want to stop their games being resold then I suggest that they work on Origin. I don't have Origin but if it works like Steam then it means you can install the same game on all your computers as long as you're not logged in on more than one at any time and you can't sell the game or give it away unless you buy another copy. If only it was cheaper. Lets say the latest EA game comes out for $99 RRP and some shops mark it down further and sell it for $89 but you could get it from Origin for $79. I think that even with only a $10 price difference a lot of people would sway toward Origin and therefore no second hand sales. But instead the games are all the same price.

I love Steam because I've got a bunch of great bargains off them. Most of the games I get are one or two years old (some even older) but at an average of $5-10USD I cannot complain.




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  Reply # 614854 25-Apr-2012 12:19 Send private message

SamF:
I think you're missing the point there mate; why should legit, paying customers have to endure ridiculous restrictions on a product that they've legally purchased rather than just pirating it which would deprive the publisher of income?  It makes no sense!


Ultimately the copyright holders set the contract terms and you agree to those when you pay for the product.  Your argument is that the contract terms are unfair and I agree.

But, how do you fight this? Ultimately , by not purchasing the products . eg, I never bought spore due to the licensing conditions. I think spore was one of the first games to be restricted like this. 

Gamers are pretty good at exerting influence, perhaps global boycotts could be organised? 

The one good thing about buying downloads tied to an account is that you can re-download if you lose the software. It sucks to buy a whole new product just because a disc was scratched. However, that should have also been the case for normal purchases - if a disc is scratched then they replace the media as it is the software you are buying. 

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  Reply # 614911 25-Apr-2012 13:55 Send private message

sen8or: 

EB games in NZ would struggle to be in business if it weren't for 2nd hand sales, in some / many cases, their margins on used games are higher than they are on new games. When you consider that many EB games are in major malls (westfields), the rent alone would be pretty crippling, and I would hazard a guess, unsustainable without the ability to deal in used games.



I'm always amazed people still buy games from bricks and stores.

I haven't bought a game from a physical store since original WoW came out.

Steam, GoG, Origin, Impulse and Direct to Drive for me.

316 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 35


  Reply # 614918 25-Apr-2012 14:15 Send private message

That is probably why 80 - 90% of their retail space is now taken up with console games, with pc relegated to just a small section of the store and ofcourse, the cheap dump bins.

If rumours of the new consoles are true, this will further kill off the 2nd hand market, with all games, includine offline games requiring a unique identifying code to be registered with each console.

What isn't clear, is whether or not this code can be transferred to a portable device (eg memory stick or, better yet, your "live ID") so that the game can be played by you at a mates place.

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  Reply # 614952 25-Apr-2012 15:23 Send private message

sen8or: If rumours of the new consoles are true, this will further kill off the 2nd hand market, with all games, includine offline games requiring a unique identifying code to be registered with each console.


What it will lead to is what has always been the reaction to overly restrictive copy protection; better hacks :)

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  Reply # 614964 25-Apr-2012 15:35 Send private message

your friend needs to de-register the game in his origin account first before you can use the serial number




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