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Topic # 102678 19-May-2012 01:45 Send private message

When Dragon Age: Origins came out I purchased the retail boxed version, activated online & registered the game. When the Ultimate Edition was released it was cheaper than buying the DLC & updating the original so I purchased it through EA as a digital download. 

The digital version used the EA Download Manager (EADM) which was able to be uninstalled (all apart from the activation files) after the game was installed. 

I haven't played that game for over a year and never went past the original DA:O so the Awakenings and DLC were unused. 

Fast forward to today - I have a new PC and wanted to install the game. There is no way to install without EADM but EADM no longer works - it comes up saying there is an upgrade. The upgrade is to EA Origin, with all its spyware and completely different terms and conditions to the original EADM. I will NOT install Origin. This means the games cannot be installed. (No, I'm not interested in alternative downloads - I have the legal, registered games and want to use them). 

This, to me, raises an important point - the terms and conditions under which I purchased this game have been changed. The original EADM had nuisance value but was not intrusive. It could be removed without impacting on the game. At no time did I consent to anything like Origin & by forcing this on me it is essentially killing the original contract and enforcing a new one under duress. EA clearly stated that the game would be available and able to be reinstalled. It can't be, unless I accept the new contract.

As you may have guessed, I am very, VERY angry. 

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  Reply # 627606 19-May-2012 01:55 Send private message

Initial concerns over the wording in the Origin EULA have turned out have been sensationally blown out of proportion.

Several people regularly check and investigate exactly what Origin does and what it transmits back to EA.

Turns out nothing sinister is taking place, it's just another digital store front.

Not much different than Steam, Impulse, Direct2Drive, GOG, Blizzard Battle.Net etc.


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  Reply # 627617 19-May-2012 07:39 Send private message

It is annoying though that they changed it like that. Was a bit of a surprise to me too, though with Sims 3. I got it through EADM using my email\EA login but for the better half, then suddenly when she wanted it installed on a new computer I found that purchase and download had subsequently been merged into my Origins login, so it appeared that she couldn't play it when I was logged in playing any other game!

I contacted EA support and they were willing to switch it to a new Origins login, but I found a better solution - basically if you haven't deleted the original EADM download folder (mine was still in place, YMMV) there is a zip copy of the game and in there is all the usual setup.exe, etc so the game can be installed directly from there without either EADM or Origins.

Not sure if it will work with DA (I got the box version of that) but might be worth a try. BTW, I have since installed Origins for Mass Effect 3 and had absolutely no problems with it.



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  Reply # 627695 19-May-2012 13:05 Send private message

Ragnor: Initial concerns over the wording in the Origin EULA have turned out have been sensationally blown out of proportion.

Several people regularly check and investigate exactly what Origin does and what it transmits back to EA.

Turns out nothing sinister is taking place, it's just another digital store front.

Not much different than Steam, Impulse, Direct2Drive, GOG, Blizzard Battle.Net etc.



That's fine for them however the original installation allowed the EADM to be removed. Removing Origin makes the game unplayable. Had the Origin terms applied when I was looking to buy the game I would never have bought the digital download. 

FWIW, I won't purchase Steam, Impulse, Direct2Drive or any other games that add unwanted 3rd party clients to my computers either. Each to his/her own. 

My issue is that I purchased under certain terms and conditions but those terms have been changed, without my agreement, rendering my purchase unplayable. Fair enough if EA builds this into their new games but applying it retrospectively to older games that were purchased under different terms is, IMO, a breach of the original contract. Shame I can't afford to take them to court over this, or I would!





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  Reply # 627696 19-May-2012 13:09 Send private message

sidefx: 
I contacted EA support and they were willing to switch it to a new Origins login, but I found a better solution - basically if you haven't deleted the original EADM download folder (mine was still in place, YMMV) there is a zip copy of the game and in there is all the usual setup.exe, etc so the game can be installed directly from there without either EADM or Origins.

Not sure if it will work with DA (I got the box version of that) but might be worth a try. BTW, I have since installed Origins for Mass Effect 3 and had absolutely no problems with it.


You may be a life-saver! I backed up the download folder before removing EADM from my system and, sure enough, there is setup.exe there. I'll try it and see if it works out. 

Thank you.

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  Reply # 627941 20-May-2012 14:43 Send private message

Elpie: 

My issue is that I purchased under certain terms and conditions but those terms have been changed, without my agreement, rendering my purchase unplayable. Fair enough if EA builds this into their new games but applying it retrospectively to older games that were purchased under different terms is, IMO, a breach of the original contract. Shame I can't afford to take them to court over this, or I would!



Try complaining to EA support and see what they say, they may offer a refund.

Elpie: 

I won't purchase Steam, Impulse, Direct2Drive or any other games that add unwanted 3rd party clients to my computers either. Each to his/her own.  



Practically even new game uses an online platform now.

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  Reply # 627946 20-May-2012 15:10 Send private message

Ragnor:
Elpie:?

My issue is that I purchased under certain terms and conditions but those terms have been changed, without my agreement, rendering my purchase unplayable. Fair enough if EA builds this into their new games but applying it retrospectively to older games that were purchased under different terms is, IMO, a breach of the original contract. Shame I can't afford to take them to court over this, or I would!



Try complaining to EA support and see what they say, they may offer a refund.

Elpie:?

I won't purchase Steam, Impulse, Direct2Drive or any other games that add unwanted 3rd party clients to my computers either. Each to his/her own.??



Practically even new game uses an online platform now.


Surely you could go back to the retailer for a refund if the sofware have breached their own terms and conditions. Because NZ operates under different laws, what maybe allowed in the USA, may not be permitted in NZ. I would contact the retailer about it.
I also think you need to look at the terms, as some terms maybe for the product being used with another 'service' where they maybe able to regularly change the terms. eg additional online content and levels that you pay a subscription for. I think in that case it is fair enough that they can change the terms, as conditions change.However I don't think a boxed game, where no other ongoing services are used with it, that they can change the terms.

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  Reply # 627979 20-May-2012 16:54 Send private message

Did the original T&C's mention EA's conditions for altering the T&C's? Did you save a copy of the original T&C's?

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  Reply # 628239 21-May-2012 10:49 Send private message

I bet the DLC terms override the original terms and have provisions for accepting automatic updates/changes.






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  Reply # 628320 21-May-2012 13:07 Send private message

kingjj: Did the original T&C's mention EA's conditions for altering the T&C's? Did you save a copy of the original T&C's?


I have the original EULA. It does not require the use of any software manager beyond installing and activation. It even states that the daupdater, which is the only part that requires online access (not continuously) may be uninstalled. 

Further, under the original licenses, it is explicitly permitted to transfer ownership of the game to someone else. This is not permitted under the new terms. 

I intend to rely on this clause in the EULA that I accepted:


15.  Entire Agreement.  This License constitutes the entire agreement between you and EA with respect to the Software and supersedes all prior or contemporaneous understandings regarding such subject matter. No amendment to or modification of this License will be binding unless made in writing and signed by EA.  No failure to exercise, and no delay in exercising, on the part of either party, any right or any power hereunder shall operate as a waiver thereof, nor shall any single or partial exercise of any right or power hereunder preclude further exercise of any other right hereunder.  In the event of a conflict between this License and any applicable purchase or other terms, the terms of this License shall govern.


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  Reply # 628340 21-May-2012 13:55 Send private message

I would imagine that the last sentence under that clause is their out as simply put it implies that the newer contract would be the valid one and as someone else stated there is most likely updated EULA with the DLC that you bought when you purchased the the digital version.

Now if you were prevented from playing the original alone without the DLC as in the first one you bought now due to the forced upgrade to Origins (same happened to me when I bought Sims 3 for $10) I installed through EADM then it said a update was available changed then changed to Origins but then again if that's how it's got to be to play I will put up with it. I also use Steam occassionally with no issues.

I do agree though that the good old days of buying a game and installing it was how it was done. Now more and more your needing some sort of bloatware store front like Origins and Steam to play (personally though I have no issue with either just would be good to install games without needing these).

You could look at getting a fixed / cracked exe for the game you have bought it so should be able to do it that way I'm not advocating downloading the game illegally but a cracked / fixed exe is a good way to save on having to install these and also helps save the need for the physical disk to be in the drive. I know it's not ideal to do it this way but like I said it will remove the need for Origins.

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  Reply # 628444 21-May-2012 16:20 Send private message

jtbthatsme: 

I do agree though that the good old days of buying a game and installing it was how it was done. Now more and more your needing some sort of bloatware store front like Origins and Steam to play (personally though I have no issue with either just would be good to install games without needing these).



You mean the bad old days when you had to install from multiple disks, when you had to manually forward ports to get online multiplayer working, no integrated friends lists, achievements, automatic patching, voice chat etc etc.

Tongue Out

I think I have about 150 games in/via Steam now. Also using Origin for Mass Effect 3 and haven't had any problems with it. Have a few older games from GoG now too.

Can't quite understand why you guys hate the digital distribution platforms!






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  Reply # 628457 21-May-2012 16:56 Send private message

Ragnor:

I think I have about 150 games in/via Steam now. Also using Origin for Mass Effect 3 and haven't had any problems with it. Have a few older games from GoG now too.

Can't quite understand why you guys hate the digital distribution platforms!



Wait till Valve or EA decide to cut cost/go broke and switch off the server. All your 150 games gone (you need to be online to switch to offline mode).

Already happened with DRM MP3, just a matter of time.

Besides that I do like the convinience of Steam, no matter which computer I have, I always have all my games available but I am wondering how long this will last.

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  Reply # 628480 21-May-2012 18:08 Send private message

I think for those that buy the disk form should have the option not to have to use the services or even both hard or digitals forms you know when they go....Do you want to install the Bing Bar or whatever with this and get the chance to say no.

I like Steam not so much some of their region locked pricing but like you say what happens when there is a breakdown between these services eg Blah Blah company wants to remove their game from it.

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  Reply # 628610 21-May-2012 21:53 Send private message

testha:
Ragnor:

I think I have about 150 games in/via Steam now. Also using Origin for Mass Effect 3 and haven't had any problems with it. Have a few older games from GoG now too.

Can't quite understand why you guys hate the digital distribution platforms!



Wait till Valve or EA decide to cut cost/go broke and switch off the server. All your 150 games gone (you need to be online to switch to offline mode).

Already happened with DRM MP3, just a matter of time.

Besides that I do like the convinience of Steam, no matter which computer I have, I always have all my games available but I am wondering how long this will last.


That is the whole problem with the SaaS model. I like the simplicity of just buying a game on dvd and then using that. But with the SaaS model, the developer can keep clipping the ticket for upgrades and extra features etc.

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  Reply # 628631 21-May-2012 22:33 Send private message

mattwnz: 
That is the whole problem with the SaaS model. I like the simplicity of just buying a game on dvd and then using that. But with the SaaS model, the developer can keep clipping the ticket for upgrades and extra features etc.


It's not like expansion packs are anything new...  but I sorta know where y'all are coming from.

I like steam, but sometimes it also worries me a bit.  http://kotaku.com/5883435/do-we-own-our-steam-games


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