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493 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 2


  Reply # 603842 2-Apr-2012 14:13 Send private message

John

Did I get accepted for Napier?



269 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 9

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  Reply # 603859 2-Apr-2012 14:31 Send private message

Yes, 

We have a lot of probes to get out, so it may take a few days 




www.truenet.co.nz

We are seeking more volunteers here :-)

493 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 2


  Reply # 603862 2-Apr-2012 14:41 Send private message

And how long does the testing carry on for?   A few months?  Longer?



269 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 9

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  Reply # 603897 2-Apr-2012 15:11 Send private message

gchiu: And how long does the testing carry on for?   A few months?  Longer?


potentially six years 




www.truenet.co.nz

We are seeking more volunteers here :-)

3558 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 60

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WorldxChange

  Reply # 605111 4-Apr-2012 15:05 Send private message

Any more thoughts from Truenet on my comments ?




Yes I am a employee of WxC (My Profile) ... but I do have my own opinions as well Wink

             

https://www.facebook.com/wxccommunications

3558 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 60

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WorldxChange

  Reply # 605112 4-Apr-2012 15:06 Send private message

Also haven't got a notice yet for my acceptance for a Fibre test probe




Yes I am a employee of WxC (My Profile) ... but I do have my own opinions as well Wink

             

https://www.facebook.com/wxccommunications

59 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 605117 4-Apr-2012 15:15 Send private message

I havn;'t received my letter in the mail yet either - has anyone ?

Cheers,
H

493 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 2


  Reply # 605167 4-Apr-2012 16:42 Send private message

Postal services are being run down due to diminishing use ... no doubt letters will turn up!



269 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 9

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  Reply # 605212 4-Apr-2012 17:47 Send private message

maverick: Any more thoughts from Truenet on my comments ?


Interesting comment that you make comparing 2Talk with VFX (I presume) saying 2Talk is one of your "flyby nighters" and VFX as a "carrier grade VoIP network".  

We are keen to provide test results that show the performance difference between suppliers, based on fair and reasonable measurements, hence our discussion.   We are also keen to incorporate your great ideas.Cool

As we have done in the fixed line broadband results, we compare service with service. VoIP is a voice (& video) connection service and it should be fairly measured by us, independent of how the service is built.  If we can we will also compare with POTS voice services.

More ideas on methodology would be great. 




www.truenet.co.nz

We are seeking more volunteers here :-)



269 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 9

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  Reply # 605217 4-Apr-2012 17:53 Send private message

gchiu: Postal services are being run down due to diminishing use ... no doubt letters will turn up!


Yea, so are we being run down - in the headlights of keen Geekzone participants.  I tried advertising on Facebook and had a few volunteers over the first week before they dried up over the next week - we got around 20.

I started these forums on Sunday, and we are now frantically trying to get the letters and probes out. The volunteer rate is incredible.  Especially from some ISPs.

Geekzone rulz!! 

We have about 50-60 probes going out today/tomorrow and about the same number of address verification letters.  

sorry about the delay, our little team is just "working on it"

We are still chasing more volunteers at http://www.truenet.co.nz/get-involved-become-volunteer-tester  Especially WorldxChange in Wellington & Christchurch




www.truenet.co.nz

We are seeking more volunteers here :-)

3558 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 60

Trusted
WorldxChange

  Reply # 605236 4-Apr-2012 18:44 Send private message

JohnButt:
maverick: Any more thoughts from Truenet on my comments ?


Interesting comment that you make comparing 2Talk with VFX (I presume) saying 2Talk is one of your "flyby nighters" and VFX as a "carrier grade VoIP network".  

We are keen to provide test results that show the performance difference between suppliers, based on fair and reasonable measurements, hence our discussion.   We are also keen to incorporate your great ideas.Cool

As we have done in the fixed line broadband results, we compare service with service. VoIP is a voice (& video) connection service and it should be fairly measured by us, independent of how the service is built.  If we can we will also compare with POTS voice services.

More ideas on methodology would be great. 



Not at all with 2talk they are not a "flyby nighter"at all, they have a great little Asterisk based system provided by Ray and Jude who give a great feature rich service , what they don't have as you are more than aware of is an underlying network to connect their customers directly to their voice services, they provide their service to customers into their network from various other providers access products which are going to be getting to them via shared peering points.


Now this comment by you is interesting and a reason for my questions which you have now raised even more concerns after these remarks

"As we have done in the fixed line broadband results, we compare service with service. VoIP is a voice (& video) connection service and it should be fairly measured by us"

Fairly measured is the key factor here,you have no ability to fairly test a providers VoIP service with what you have listed as your test system as a true and reflective measure of a companies ability to deliver a VoIP over their own network,

Example being Ourselves, Vodafone, Orcon and Callplus have platforms and infrastructure where VoIP calls working natively with our respective platforms are handled vastly different than cross providers VoIP services , i.e a VFX hosted device off a Orcon LLU connection, yet from what you are saying this is what you will want to post your statistics around, I have major problems with that.

Primary Voice services being provided by the major VoIP players in the market have their own network deployed for a major reason and that is to give best quality VoIP experiences for our direct connected ISP customers as these are contained within their own network ,

Right now you have a couple of requests from some our FTTH users of which we have several thousand, now under your methodology you will test from these to your hosted platform and post the MOS results on WxC's ability to deliver VoIP services.... This is wrong and no way is a true reflection of the customers VoIP experience !!!!!, the VFX VoIP services deployed come into our network across the same network as your "test service" however from the time it leaves the device to the time it is handed off the RTP packets have been treated vastly differently than your random test packets which are lumped in with the best efforts traffic, so you say that the service should be fairly measured tell me how this is fair John ?

You will also find the same for the other providers who have a majority of the VoIP connections in NZ, so basically your stats are not looking at the majority of the deployed VoIP connections all your reporting on is a ability to transit RTP packets across shared peering links with no QOS or tagging,

So again my concern here is media and misinformation which you are going to supply in the public domain, you will report on this and post it here and other places i.e ComCom and the only thing the basic reader of these reports will understand is that you are measuring VoIP MOS statistics of different carriers, your average person is not going to understand how VLANing, QOS tagging works, all they will see a report saying this is the quality measurement for VoIP using Carrier A B or C which no way reflects that carriers VoIP offering...

Comparing fixed line testing of a ISP and testing VoIP offerings is vastly different and again I have concerns over your methodology described here and I believe if you cant measure it "Fairly and accurately" there is no way I would want you putting these results against WxC no matter good or bad as they are not a accurate reflection of how we handle the VFX voice service.




Yes I am a employee of WxC (My Profile) ... but I do have my own opinions as well Wink

             

https://www.facebook.com/wxccommunications

840 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 59

Trusted

  Reply # 605252 4-Apr-2012 19:10 Send private message

Just wondering I'm currently in Wellington South but at the end of this year would be living in the Lower Hutt area is this a problem if I voluteer I do not see myself changing from WXC as a ISP as they do provide a reliable mostly cost effective (for my needs) service for both data and VOIP.



269 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 9

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 605279 4-Apr-2012 20:07 Send private message

jtbthatsme: Just wondering I'm currently in Wellington South but at the end of this year would be living in the Lower Hutt area is this a problem if I voluteer I do not see myself changing from WXC as a ISP as they do provide a reliable mostly cost effective (for my needs) service for both data and VOIP.


That's fine, we need to know your address so we have the correct exchange/cabinet, but we use "Region" to count volunteers and both are in the Wellington region 




www.truenet.co.nz

We are seeking more volunteers here :-)

805 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 62

UberGroup

  Reply # 605287 4-Apr-2012 20:28 Send private message

maverick:
JohnButt:
maverick: Any more thoughts from Truenet on my comments ?


Interesting comment that you make comparing 2Talk with VFX (I presume) saying 2Talk is one of your "flyby nighters" and VFX as a "carrier grade VoIP network".  

We are keen to provide test results that show the performance difference between suppliers, based on fair and reasonable measurements, hence our discussion.   We are also keen to incorporate your great ideas.Cool

As we have done in the fixed line broadband results, we compare service with service. VoIP is a voice (& video) connection service and it should be fairly measured by us, independent of how the service is built.  If we can we will also compare with POTS voice services.

More ideas on methodology would be great. 



Not at all with 2talk they are not a "flyby nighter"at all, they have a great little Asterisk based system provided by Ray and Jude who give a great feature rich service , what they don't have as you are more than aware of is an underlying network to connect their customers directly to their voice services, they provide their service to customers into their network from various other providers access products which are going to getting to them via shared peering points.


Now this comment by you is interesting and a reason for my questions which you have now raised even more concerns after these remarks

"As we have done in the fixed line broadband results, we compare service with service. VoIP is a voice (& video) connection service and it should be fairly measured by us"

Fairly measured is the key factor here,you have no ability to fairly test a providers VoIP service with what you have listed as your test system as a true and reflective measure of a companies ability to deliver a VoIP over their own network,

Example being Ourselves, Vodafone, Orcon and Callplus have platforms and infrastructure where VoIP calls working natively with our respective platforms are handled vastly different than cross providers VoIP services , i.e a VFX hosted device off a Orcon LLU connection, yet from what you are saying this is what you will want to post your statistics around, I have major problems with that.

Primary Voice services being provided by the major VoIP players in the market have their own network deployed for a major reason and that is to give best quality VoIP experiences for our direct connected ISP customers as these are contained within their own network ,

Right now you have a couple of requests from some our FTTH users of which we have several thousand, now under your methodology you will test from these to your hosted platform and post the MOS results on WxC's ability to deliver VoIP services.... This is wrong and no way is a true reflection of the customers VoIP experience !!!!!, the VFX VoIP services deployed come into our network across the same network as your "test service" however from the time it leaves the device to the time it is handed off the RTP packets have been treated vastly differently than your random test packets which are lumped in with the best efforts traffic, so you say that the service should be fairly measured tell me how this is fair John ?

You will also find the same for the other providers who have a majority of the VoIP connections in NZ, so basically your stats are not looking at the majority of the deployed VoIP connections all your reporting on is a ability to transit RTP packets across shared peering links with no QOS or tagging,

So again my concern here is media and misinformation which you are going to supply in the public domain, you will report on this and post it here and other places i.e ComCom and the only thing the basic reader of these reports will understand is that you are measuring VoIP MOS statistics of different carriers, your average person is not going to understand how VLANing, QOS tagging works, all they will see a report saying this is the quality measurement for VoIP using Carrier A B or C which no way reflects that carriers VoIP offering...

Comparing fixed line testing of a ISP and testing VoIP offerings is vastly different and again I have concerns over your methodology described here and I believe if you cant measure it "Fairly and accurately" there is no way I would want you putting these results against WxC no matter good or bad as they are not a accurate reflection of how we handle the VFX voice service.


Completely agree here, TrueNet's testing could very well end up harmful, As Maverick has explained very well the results you get from the testing method you have outlined here will unfairly disadvantage those carrier's who's VOIP product are tightly integrated into the networks that they operate on.

I think you need to seriously reconsider your testing methods, In order to get real world results from providers like 2talk and with ITSP's like VXF you will need to work with them so your devices can operate on the voice networks and make actual calls thru their networks. This would give you a fair idea of what a 2talk service on Telecom DSL is like vs a Orcon genius service on Orcon DSL etc etc

Anything less than this is going to cause confusion and annoy ITSP's who have spent alot of time and money making sure their VOIP service worked aswell if not better than POTS 




Most problems are the result of previous solutions...

All comment's I make are my own personal opinion and do not in any way, shape or form reflect the views of current or former employers unless specifically stated 

861 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 9

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  Reply # 605452 5-Apr-2012 08:19 Send private message

Also I think there is value in testing the different VoIP offerings on all ISP's, i.e. Testing VFX on WxC ADSL, Orcon, Voda etc then also testing 2Talk on WxC ADSL, Orcon, Voda etc.

For example, due to cost I have Voda naked and VFX, I would like to see the quality disadvantage to doing this.




Hmmmm

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