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65 posts

Master Geek
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Topic # 139169 30-Jan-2014 09:44 Send private message

Hi,

I am getting fibre installed today.  The house is new(ish) and has 3 jackpoints back to a star wiring point. The electrician who did the build and I rang assures me that the cable is cat 5, but when I look at the plug points, they look like the old fashioned phone plugs.  Chorus are going to connect the router (Fritzbox) up to these cables.

[Edit]: Spoke to Electrician again. definitely Cat 5e cable but standard phone jackpoints.

Is there any way I can still use this cable / existing jack points to connect up to the router? Or will I need to change the faceplates etc?? 

Because of where the router is going to go in the garage, I want to use these point to also connect up a wireless access point if I can.

Your help is appreciated. Apologies, but I don't really know this stuff at all.
Regards,
Alexis

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524 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 37


  Reply # 977094 30-Jan-2014 09:53 Send private message

If there is a patch panel at the star point, all you might need to do is convert the jackpoints to RJ45, at least the one where you want to put the router.

1199 posts

Uber Geek
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  Reply # 977097 30-Jan-2014 09:53 Send private message

The cat-5 refers to the cable itself. Enhanced twisted pairs (4). New homes don't tend to bother with CAT-3 anymore for internal wiring, so he is likely on the money. The jacks however can be whatever was requested at the time. The installer may be nice and swap the module out for RG45s, but this may mean the change of a few cables too if they wired you for traditional BT (brittish telecom) use. Easily fixed, I wouldn't panic too much at this point. Either a BT or RJ45 (rj11/12) can be used into the fritz :)

70Mb/s VDSL @ Home
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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 977115 30-Jan-2014 09:59 Send private message

Just need to re do the jack, If he was a good tech the faceplate should be a square shape where the plug is and can swap it for RJ-45, RJ-11 etc without getting a new faceplate or surround.

Best of luck you lucky blimmin UFB customer




 




65 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 977122 30-Jan-2014 10:09 Send private message

TimA: Just need to re do the jack, If he was a good tech the faceplate should be a square shape where the plug is and can swap it for RJ-45, RJ-11 etc without getting a new faceplate or surround.

Best of luck you lucky blimmin UFB customer


Thanks.  Looks like it'll be Chorus connecting router to the 3 cables.  They are going to run a single cable from the router to the patch block and "liven up" the 3 cables / points?  Will this work?  Or should it be 3 cables back?

I'll then need to get an electrician to change faceplates / plugs. Should I get them changed to RJ45?  Any ideas how easy this is?

Regards,
Alexis

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 977181 30-Jan-2014 10:57 Send private message

If I were you I would get them to install the router AND the ONT at your patch panel. Sounds like they are going to install the ONT somewhere easy. It's messy. Kind of like if you had 2 electric switchboards that fed each other...







65 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 977186 30-Jan-2014 11:01 Send private message

Zeon: If I were you I would get them to install the router AND the ONT at your patch panel. Sounds like they are going to install the ONT somewhere easy. It's messy. Kind of like if you had 2 electric switchboards that fed each other...


They are installing the ONT and Router together and then running cable from router to patch point.  The problem is the builder didn't put any power points anywhere near the patch point!!!  My key concern is if it is one cable from router to patch point and then 3 cables (likely only 2 will be used) from there, what will the impact on speed / quality be?

Regards,
Alexis

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 977242 30-Jan-2014 11:40 Send private message

You'll need to tell is WHERE they intend on installing the kit. (and how close to other outlets)

If it is final destination is behind the tv, the cable they want to put in will be so you can get the VoIP out of the router back to the main in feed of the existing copper. Which will make all 3 outlets in the house phone capable.

From what you are describing you are not going to get any ethernet enabled outlets without a complete re-wire (will need 3 individually cabled outlets not joined like they sound to be - so 2 runs of cable to each outlet easiest) to dual sockets. It will likely be installed with intentions of direct to router connection for internet only.



65 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 977270 30-Jan-2014 12:06 Send private message

Oblivian: You'll need to tell is WHERE they intend on installing the kit. (and how close to other outlets)

If it is final destination is behind the tv, the cable they want to put in will be so you can get the VoIP out of the router back to the main in feed of the existing copper. Which will make all 3 outlets in the house phone capable.

From what you are describing you are not going to get any ethernet enabled outlets without a complete re-wire (will need 3 individually cabled outlets not joined like they sound to be - so 2 runs of cable to each outlet easiest) to dual sockets. It will likely be installed with intentions of direct to router connection for internet only.


This is where I show my  total ignorance..  and only a little bit of knowledge.

The ONT and router will be installed on the wall in the garage.  Chorus is putting a cat 6 cable from there to the patch point (elsewhere in the garage) connecting up the 3 wall points (currently phone).  What I want to do is get the face plates changed and use those points as data points.  Will this work? Will I need to run 3 cables back to the router and 3 separate lan ports?

Ultimately what I want to do is directly plug a computer into one point for wired internet access and a wireless access point into another point to give better general Wifi.

Cheers.

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 977276 30-Jan-2014 12:13 Send private message

All comes back to the way the phone outlets were run. If they are independent (3 sticking out the wall in the garage) you can potentially re-task one of them to be a LAN port. But if they are daisy chained outlet to outlet from a single incoming point (where its from the street to your house and onto outlets) and they have linked them (often done to if wanting cheap job to save lengths used) only a single feed will make all 3 phones live. And this is why they often run a single one to that point. Attach it in the chaing and BAM - Instant 3 live VoIP lines.

If they are independant cabled 1 cable each outlet to the central point, you can pair up 2 of them for phone use, and the last can be used for ethernet (with a change of faceplate/outlet type)

However unless you can verify 3 cables hanging out the wall at a central point with easy access to each end.. I'd say you are about to get 3 voice outlets only

The ultimate task of installer: Install gear. Get phones working.

Internet and cabling is an after thought. If you want data to that outlet location too to play with. There will need to be _2_ cables run. Voip + Data out from router to central point

524 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 977292 30-Jan-2014 12:24 Send private message

I would let Chorus put the ONT in the garage but then get them to put the router somewhere in the house where you want wifi, data and phone. Hopefully this is near one of your existing jackpoints. The installer should then run a cable from the ONT to the star point, patch it through to the appropriate jackpoint, convert your jackpoint to RJ45 and connect this to the WAN port of the router.



65 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 977348 30-Jan-2014 13:14 Send private message

Hi,

The jack points are set up star style, with 3 cables back to the central point.  If I read comments correctly, I am guessing that the way chorus are wiring it up will only make the 3 points internet live and I will need more cable etc if I want to have a wireless access point plugged into one?

The family preference is keep the router in the garage and have cable to points in living areas.  We have kids who have specific reasons to be kept well away from the equipment.

Cheers,
Alexis

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 977367 30-Jan-2014 13:25 Send private message

No, they will likely be making 3 live PHONE outlets. Not internet. - Where users want internet outlets tends to be their responsibility/extra cost

Their primary focus is ensuring users have a phone still. And if you are going VoIP generally the copper gets snipped and all outlets re-wired to VoIP

If you have an agreement to keep the copper, he may be going to do a single outlet as data. But I doubt it

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 977391 30-Jan-2014 13:37 Send private message

Probably too late now if you're getting installed today but....

1: Get your sparkie to put a power point in/near the cabinet/patch panel.

2: Put the router in the patch/panel then you only need 2 cables (1 for data, 1 for voice) from the garage to the patch panel as opposed to needing a cable for every jackpoint.

3: Change all jackpoints to RJ45 and use RJ45 to RJ11/12 cable for phone only port.

Chorus contracted tech's typically want to do the minimum work (as that's all they are paid for) so you're unlikely to get much work out of them other than install the ONT and test and some hack job to connect to your existing wiring.

Either way: Can you post some before/after pictures, where the ONT is going in the garage and what the central patch location looks like currently? Also how far from the garage to the central patch location.



65 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 977467 30-Jan-2014 14:33 Send private message

Ragnor: Probably too late now if you're getting installed today but....

1: Get your sparkie to put a power point in/near the cabinet/patch panel.

2: Put the router in the patch/panel then you only need 2 cables (1 for data, 1 for voice) from the garage to the patch panel as opposed to needing a cable for every jackpoint.

3: Change all jackpoints to RJ45 and use RJ45 to RJ11/12 cable for phone only port.

Chorus contracted tech's typically want to do the minimum work (as that's all they are paid for) so you're unlikely to get much work out of them other than install the ONT and test and some hack job to connect to your existing wiring.

Either way: Can you post some before/after pictures, where the ONT is going in the garage and what the central patch location looks like currently? Also how far from the garage to the central patch location.


You are right it is too late for that. I am happy where the router and ONT are, both together but not close to the patch point. putting them where the patch point is was going to be difficult.

We are pretty simple really and what we really need are the following:

1)  UFB.  Which is being installed
2) At least 1 wired internet point so I can connect my work laptop and get max speed
3) Wifi internet in living areas (if necessary adding a WAP).
4) Connect up an apple tv (or similar) via wifi or maybe wired for better speed

I am now thinking that all I will have internet wise is Wifi or a very long cable from the router :)

I am really starting to think I get a data cabling person in tomorrow to sort this out.  With all due respect to Chorus, when I asked them some questions about connecting up to the internal wiring, their answers were not inspiring. 

Cheers

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 978449 1-Feb-2014 10:29 Send private message

alexisj:
Zeon: If I were you I would get them to install the router AND the ONT at your patch panel. Sounds like they are going to install the ONT somewhere easy. It's messy. Kind of like if you had 2 electric switchboards that fed each other...


They are installing the ONT and Router together and then running cable from router to patch point.  The problem is the builder didn't put any power points anywhere near the patch point!!!  My key concern is if it is one cable from router to patch point and then 3 cables (likely only 2 will be used) from there, what will the impact on speed / quality be?

Regards,
Alexis


So only 3 outlets around the house plus a new one where they want to put the ONT/router?

The sparky didnt know what he was doing (hes not a comms tech) and should come back to put a double power outlet at the patching point, on a separate circuit breaker. Preferably surge protected if you don't mind paying a bit extra. Then get the ONT installed here at the patching point. Might as well do it properly. A cabinet to enclose it all (power outlet, patching, router, ONT if possible) would finish the job.

Your new BT phone jacks were obsolete years ago but sparkies can't be expected to know this. Hopefully he installed Cat5e without kinking the cables or anything, and you can change the outlets to RJ45. Any analogue phone will need an RJ45 plug on its cable (I can send you one) to match the RJ45 outlets, but this means you can change the phone to any other device later on without having to change the outlet.




Qualified in business, certified in fibre, stuck in copper, have to keep going  ^_^

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