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169 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 568283 13-Jan-2012 10:25 Send private message

cyril7:
Draytek 120 is the best standalong modem you'll get it you want to bridge it. Your next decision however is what router to use with it. You'll find that this will be a potentially weaker link than the modem.


Exactly, the main reason most DSL routers need rebooting is the NAT router gets its nickers in a twist, whereas the modem side which is largely hardware/DSP pump and a bit of simple firmware rarely goes awol.

Cyril



Hi Cyril in the past I have lurked as a guest and read some very useful posts of yours so I just want to say thank you!

319 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 47


  Reply # 568302 13-Jan-2012 10:51 Send private message

bisr:
hashbrown: None of the commercial grade vendors make a bad ADSL interface. Get a firewall with built in DSL. Extra boxes give extra chances to fail and if you will be supporting this network remotely, it makes management much harder.


Okay yes, that is worth considering. Is there one you recommend? Thanks for your input!




I should add that there is a dedicated cabinet space in the client's location with proper ventilation where all this gear is going and how it looks is absolutely irrelevant. The only things that will be outside of the cabinet will be 1-2 wifi AP/Extenders. Frankly if I could get something that was rack mounted it would be best! I love thin and shiny.


Juniper SRX110.  Rack mountable with built in VDSL2.  Not sure how high the budget goes though.

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  Reply # 568306 13-Jan-2012 10:59 Send private message

Hi Bisr cheers, I think the Vigor120 as others have mentioned with its nice PPPoAPPPoE bridge is your best option.

Cheers
Cyril

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  Reply # 568434 13-Jan-2012 14:59 Send private message

bisr:  Basically, they need 100% reliability in their network 

Oh, the client's telephone/ISP will be Telecom NZ. The client's apartment is located at the bottom of Albert Street in the Auckland CBD.



FYI

DSL is best effort and has no guarantee of uptime or performance, basically no SLA... even the Telecom business DSL plans effectively state this in their terms.

https://www.telecombusinesshub.co.nz/Internet/Broadband/Pages/ProductTerms.aspx

While we always strive to provide a consistent service, there are a number of factors that influence reliability. For this reason, we do not guarantee connection speed bandwidth, latency (delay) or bit rate through our broadband network at any one point in time. As the Telecom Business Broadband service can occasionally go down, we do not recommend it for 'important' purposes. We cannot guarantee how quickly we can resolve problems with the network.

To find out about managed broadband connections, with guaranteed service levels, call 126 or your Telecom account manager


If you are serious about no downtime you may need to look at load balancing/failover with multiple connections, some combination one or more DSL connections or backup 3G mobile broadband.

It starts getting expensive, depends how serious you are about uptime.

45 posts

Geek


  Reply # 569234 15-Jan-2012 21:06 Send private message

defnz: Only issue I have with the Draytek, once bridged, is that you can't access it to see the stats
If you set your router up correctly you can get to the status page when it is in bridge mode.

319 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 47


  Reply # 569730 17-Jan-2012 06:52 Send private message

phrozenpenguin:
defnz: Only issue I have with the Draytek, once bridged, is that you can't access it to see the stats
If you set your router up correctly you can get to the status page when it is in bridge mode.


bisr,

You'll need to keep this sort of thing in mind if you want to fully support your customer.  Unless you want to go onsite to troubleshoot Internet connectivity issues, you'll need to spend build time making sure you can access the modem's status page remotely (and securely). This type of issue is why I'd recommend a single box solution.



169 posts

Master Geek
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Reply # 569765 17-Jan-2012 09:07 Send private message

Thanks everyone for your help! Smile



169 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 569770 17-Jan-2012 09:11 Send private message

hashbrown:
phrozenpenguin:
defnz: Only issue I have with the Draytek, once bridged, is that you can't access it to see the stats
If you set your router up correctly you can get to the status page when it is in bridge mode.


bisr,

You'll need to keep this sort of thing in mind if you want to fully support your customer.  Unless you want to go onsite to troubleshoot Internet connectivity issues, you'll need to spend build time making sure you can access the modem's status page remotely (and securely). This type of issue is why I'd recommend a single box solution.


Hi Hash - I don't know if I am technically competent enough to make one of the 800 series Cisco's work. I am happy to throw some work your way if you want it?

Honestly this client is never going to want to analyse any statistics of their network in the context of business productivity - they will be getting a 'total home' broadband plan from Telecom and all they want is for it to work. But if something does goes wrong and I can't figure out why then that would suck.

319 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 47


  Reply # 570654 18-Jan-2012 23:49 Send private message

Thanks for the offer but I've got plenty on at the moment. 

You might just want to keep it simple anyway. It doesn't sound like the user is going to be doing anything particularly stressful with the setup. 

21 posts

Geek


  Reply # 571647 21-Jan-2012 15:15 Send private message

phrozenpenguin:
defnz: Only issue I have with the Draytek, once bridged, is that you can't access it to see the stats
If you set your router up correctly you can get to the status page when it is in bridge mode.


Does anyone have more information on how to do this?

I have a Draytec 120 and use home version of Astaro Security Gateway.

Edit: Also, Does anyone else experience much slower speeds on Draytec? Like almost half the download speeds

45 posts

Geek


  Reply # 571729 21-Jan-2012 19:53 Send private message

ImNotADJ:
phrozenpenguin:
defnz: Only issue I have with the Draytek, once bridged, is that you can't access it to see the stats
If you set your router up correctly you can get to the status page when it is in bridge mode.


Does anyone have more information on how to do this?

I have a Draytec 120 and use home version of Astaro Security Gateway.

I've never used Astaro, but the basic config would be setup a DHCP client on your WAN interface (as well as the PPPoE connection) so it the router gets an IP from the Draytek, and then route all requests to the Draytek IP (192.168.1.1) out through the WAN interface (not the PPPoE connection). It helps if your LAN is on a different subnet to the Draytek (default 192.168.1.0/24?).
Can't help on the speed - I've only used the Draytek on this connection. Hope that helps.



169 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 667953 5-Aug-2012 20:49 Send private message

A bit of an update:

Well, a bunch of time has past and the client's apartment is still not ready to have the electronics and network installed. This has worked out really good because there are lots of bits of tech I was interested in which have now arrived in NZ. I have figured out what I will use for all the components and how it will work together.

So thanks again everyone for your help. I might update this thread later with photos and diagrams of the install.

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  Reply # 667955 5-Aug-2012 20:54 Send private message

Just a comment here, you have invested so much setting up all of their network with hight yet using a standard DSL/POTs combination with no service level agreement? That's probably the most likely thing to break in this chain no matter the modem. Either get a more reliable service with a SLA e.g. HSNS might be your next best bet or at the very least get a router with failover to a separate connection e.g. 3g and use VOIP.

Heard of people cut off for days when there has been a major copper cut and I'm presuming that if you have HSNS you will be at the front of the line for a fix.

But othewise Draytek Vigor 120 for ADSL. If you are in town it might even be worth considering fibre as it sounds like the client isn't cost adverse....







169 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 13


  Reply # 668616 6-Aug-2012 22:02 Send private message

Zeon: Just a comment here, you have invested so much setting up all of their network with hight yet using a standard DSL/POTs combination with no service level agreement? That's probably the most likely thing to break in this chain no matter the modem. Either get a more reliable service with a SLA e.g. HSNS might be your next best bet or at the very least get a router with failover to a separate connection e.g. 3g and use VOIP.

Heard of people cut off for days when there has been a major copper cut and I'm presuming that if you have HSNS you will be at the front of the line for a fix.

But othewise Draytek Vigor 120 for ADSL. If you are in town it might even be worth considering fibre as it sounds like the client isn't cost adverse....



Your advice is excellent and much appreciated. You are right it's the glaring hole in the plan. Standard HSNS seems overpriced but Fibre makes a lot of sense... but aren't neither of these a practical option for residential, though?  It does not seem clear to me that Fibre is really here yet.

What worldcom and xnet offer in terms of traffic is absurd - I would say to any client to wait for Orcon's home fibre plans to become real - eg. I love the 1TB plan for $199/mo. (it's actually $159 on the calculator I used), but they have still not rolled out their fibre services, still in the 'announced'/promotional phase. The $99 200GB makes sense for most people too.

As soon as Orcon come out with Fibre 200GB and 1TB plans then I think it's a perfect option for the kiwi market. I know that sounds overkill but if you look at Orcon's pricing the cost differential between 60GB and 200GB is $10 on highspeed fibre. You would have to be a mug to go for 60GB in that context.

This is a little bit OT since we are interested in quality and stability of service, but at the moment I think the best service is Compass Mammoth Broadband... it's the same price as a normal traffic limited DSL plan but it's unlimited. I have also experienced zero speed throttling and I have had zero downtime with them and excellent phone support. I think getting any plan that's not unlimited is mental especially if there is no real difference in price. Most families with young kids use a lot more than they think they will and most nerds are power users and will use all they can get. Myself I regularly download 40-50GB a day on my DSL line. No way my client is going to come close to that but it's very easy for people to use 4-5GB per day without thinking about it and that adds up quickly and it's better to not have a fluctuating bill imho and get a proper service to boot.

But anyway, getting back to the point, Fibre is definitely the way to go. I will try to find out from Orcon when it is going to become a reality.

WAIT scratch that just saw the scheduled time on Chorus' website: June 2014 for Auckland CBD. Now that is CRAZY and illogical, surely... So oh well, they will have to stick with DSL. 

Thanks for the suggestion though. I don't know if you saw the first post but the client's apartment is in a hotel on Albert Street. Maybe they already have commercial fibre going in there that I can piggyback? I dunno, I will look into it when we get closer to doing the actual install. The builder's wife has cancer so there are understandable delays.

BTR

548 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 109


  Reply # 669125 7-Aug-2012 16:34 Send private message

Cisco do a commercial grade ADSL router, SRP527W-U and price is around $300 depending where you get it from.

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