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5236 posts

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  Reply # 730372 11-Dec-2012 12:42 Send private message

Talkiet: I can't believe I'm about to pull out the old roading analogy, but I will, since it seems it's needed.

I've taken all sorts of license with this, and parts are for amusement, and clarification...

Anyway, imagine that Broadband isn't Broadband, and packets aren't packets... They are widgets, and you get widgets delivered every day. Widgets come from the US.

Today, the widgets are loaded into a container in the US, sent on a ship to NZ, unloaded in Auckland, then transferred to a train which takes the widgets to the town you're in and then they are put into a 1994 ford transit and delivered to your house.

Under UFB, the widgets are loaded into a container in the US, sent on a ship to NZ, unloaded in Auckland, then automatically loaded onto a bullet train which tears up and down the country at 300kmh and has a cunning system to unload the widgets into waiting ferraris at each town. The Ferrar (driven by Schumacher now he's retired from F1) then tears up the road and delivers you the widget.

So, hopefully this makes it clear why you MAY NOT see a dramatic improvement for international deliveries with UFB.

Cheers - N



I've always liked the 'road' analogy for broadband, but rather than represeting the types of broadband with different modes of transport I prefer size of the road. 
Fibre Backhaul needs to have large capacity so is like a 10 lane highway, but one where LOADs of people use it so it gets oncgested at peak times.  copper is like a single lane dirt track, but since it is mostly only you using it it rarely gets congested. 

UFB replaces your own (copper) dirt track with a 10 lane highway, but doesn't make any different to the congestion on the (international backhaul) motorway.
So now you can zoom all the way to the motorway, but any motorway congestion still slows you down.
In fact as more and more people get their roads upgraded, they will want ot use the motorway more and more and so congestion might actually increase.

94 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 730376 11-Dec-2012 12:50 Send private message

NonprayingMantis:
Talkiet: I can't believe I'm about to pull out the old roading analogy, but I will, since it seems it's needed.

I've taken all sorts of license with this, and parts are for amusement, and clarification...

Anyway, imagine that Broadband isn't Broadband, and packets aren't packets... They are widgets, and you get widgets delivered every day. Widgets come from the US.

Today, the widgets are loaded into a container in the US, sent on a ship to NZ, unloaded in Auckland, then transferred to a train which takes the widgets to the town you're in and then they are put into a 1994 ford transit and delivered to your house.

Under UFB, the widgets are loaded into a container in the US, sent on a ship to NZ, unloaded in Auckland, then automatically loaded onto a bullet train which tears up and down the country at 300kmh and has a cunning system to unload the widgets into waiting ferraris at each town. The Ferrar (driven by Schumacher now he's retired from F1) then tears up the road and delivers you the widget.

So, hopefully this makes it clear why you MAY NOT see a dramatic improvement for international deliveries with UFB.

Cheers - N



I've always liked the 'road' analogy for broadband, but rather than represeting the types of broadband with different modes of transport I prefer size of the road. 
Fibre Backhaul needs to have large capacity so is like a 10 lane highway, but one where LOADs of people use it so it gets oncgested at peak times.  copper is like a single lane dirt track, but since it is mostly only you using it it rarely gets congested. 

UFB replaces your own (copper) dirt track with a 10 lane highway, but doesn't make any different to the congestion on the (international backhaul) motorway.
So now you can zoom all the way to the motorway, but any motorway congestion still slows you down.
In fact as more and more people get their roads upgraded, they will want ot use the motorway more and more and so congestion might actually increase.


So I guess once NZ completes the fibre rollout and everyone is hooked up, NZ can revert to using text based BBS systems abroad for their internet.  We'll all be running 9600 baud international fibre.

1078 posts

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+1 received by user: 45


  Reply # 730387 11-Dec-2012 13:09 Send private message

Adappted: 
So I guess once NZ completes the fibre rollout and everyone is hooked up, NZ can revert to using text based BBS systems abroad for their internet.  We'll all be running 9600 baud international fibre.


I think it'll be an improvement going back to bbs's!  and no adverts!

7720 posts

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+1 received by user: 298

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  Reply # 730473 11-Dec-2012 14:19 Send private message

Adappted: 

So I guess once NZ completes the fibre rollout and everyone is hooked up, NZ can revert to using text based BBS systems abroad for their internet.  We'll all be running 9600 baud international fibre.


The effect of latency and the distributed nature of the internet means ISP's can't guarantee performance outside of their network on residential grade plans.

You should also accept there will be teething issues with UFB like any new service.

Orcon seems to be the problem here though, they are your ISP so I suggest you continue to peruse the issues with their customer support to the full extent possible and if need be after an appropriate amount of time make a formal complaint.

After a formal complaint you could use the TDR OR change ISP and dispute the contract break fee, if you are in the right (which is debatable currently).

UFB will be great on ISP's that don't over subscribe their international transit and once the teething issues are worked out.

You selected yourself as a guinea pig in going with UFB though so I'd advise some tolerance and patience needs to be used.






723 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 97

Subscriber

  Reply # 730505 11-Dec-2012 14:54 Send private message

And if you think Orcon are guilding the UFB lilly, try the Telecom version!

http://www.telecom.co.nz/internet/ultrafibre/explorethepossibilities/?fibre=fibreready

94 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 730509 11-Dec-2012 15:02 Send private message

Ok, Orcon social media has caught onto my complaints here and elsewhere and escalated this thing.  I now have someone assigned to work with me on the issues.  So far looks like they themselves only get 3.5-5mb to the USA, however when we run tests in sync to the same servers when they get 4mb I get 1.7ish.  So they are still looking into it and are going to call back.

723 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 97

Subscriber

  Reply # 730592 11-Dec-2012 16:17 Send private message

Look forward to your updates. I am sure Orcon want to know if there is a fixable problem here.

94 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 730647 11-Dec-2012 17:03 Send private message

Check out this test I just ran.  Orcon fibre vs. my vodafone 3g at 50% signal.


Orcon Fibre NY:

Inline image 3

Vodafone 3g mobile my laptop connected to my phone via hotspot:

Inline image 4


Looks pretty sad.  My friend 2 doors down on Orcon fibre 100mbit plan ran the same test and could not break 3.5mbit down on his fibre.

*edit- so yeah obviously something is wrong, I will reserve final judgement of the situation until I hear back over the next couple days.

673 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 27

Trusted

  Reply # 731326 12-Dec-2012 12:57 Send private message

Talkiet: I can't believe I'm about to pull out the old roading analogy, but I will, since it seems it's needed.

I've taken all sorts of license with this, and parts are for amusement, and clarification...

Anyway, imagine that Broadband isn't Broadband, and packets aren't packets... They are widgets, and you get widgets delivered every day. Widgets come from the US.

Today, the widgets are loaded into a container in the US, sent on a ship to NZ, unloaded in Auckland, then transferred to a train which takes the widgets to the town you're in and then they are put into a 1994 ford transit and delivered to your house.

Under UFB, the widgets are loaded into a container in the US, sent on a ship to NZ, unloaded in Auckland, then automatically loaded onto a bullet train which tears up and down the country at 300kmh and has a cunning system to unload the widgets into waiting ferraris at each town. The Ferrar (driven by Schumacher now he's retired from F1) then tears up the road and delivers you the widget.

So, hopefully this makes it clear why you MAY NOT see a dramatic improvement for international deliveries with UFB.

Cheers - N


<not serious>
Oh i lol'd when i read this...
But its critical the economy that we employ schumacher clones.

</not serious>




meat popsicle

673 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 27

Trusted

  Reply # 731372 12-Dec-2012 13:30 Send private message

Adappted: Check out this test I just ran.  Orcon fibre vs. my vodafone 3g at 50% signal.


Orcon Fibre NY:

Inline image 3

Vodafone 3g mobile my laptop connected to my phone via hotspot:

Inline image 4


Looks pretty sad.  My friend 2 doors down on Orcon fibre 100mbit plan ran the same test and could not break 3.5mbit down on his fibre.

*edit- so yeah obviously something is wrong, I will reserve final judgement of the situation until I hear back over the next couple days.


I hear its a different story now?
New speed tests maybe:)

Paul




meat popsicle

94 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 731378 12-Dec-2012 13:35 Send private message

Looks like Orcon found the issue, something to do with configurations at external carriers, they say permanent changes will be made. A couple new speedtests:





This is by far more usable. Downloading a db backup today from my Chicago server pre-change I could only get 75kbsec, now I can get a sustained 2mbit download

I can live with these speeds, not bad. It is a shame I had to go through a month of pleading there was an issue and persistence to get this sorted, but oh well at least it's been sorted. I suspect the global configuration changes they made will improve performance for everyone. I still find it bizarre how I am hitting 7-10mbit to NY after the change but before all of this I was told "2mbit looks about right". Score one for persistence.

Network Engineer @ Orcon
1181 posts

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Orcon
Subscriber

  Reply # 731382 12-Dec-2012 13:41 Send private message

Adappted: Looks like Orcon found the issue, something to do with configurations at external carriers, they say permanent changes will be made. A couple new speedtests:


Changes were made on our BNG side to get around some ridiculas rules that Chorus imposes on all UFB circuits.

Its been work in progress for a while.



94 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 731387 12-Dec-2012 13:48 Send private message

Sounddude:
Adappted: Looks like Orcon found the issue, something to do with configurations at external carriers, they say permanent changes will be made. A couple new speedtests:


Changes were made on our BNG side to get around some ridiculas rules that Chorus imposes on all UFB circuits.

Its been work in progress for a while.




Well, maybe it was all kept under wraps for some reason or lack of communication.  I was told numerous times by Orcon staff there was no issues and that my 2mbit speeds to the US "look about right".  If Orcon would have been more forthcoming and highlighted some current issues being worked on, it could have greatly reduced some disgruntled customers.  Anyway, here's hoping it continues to improve.  I would still like to see NZ fibre hitting 30-50mbit to the US, maybe one day.

673 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 27

Trusted

  Reply # 731403 12-Dec-2012 14:09 Send private message

Can you also post speed tests from http://speedtest.orcon.net.nz

Paul




meat popsicle

94 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 731412 12-Dec-2012 14:26 Send private message

ptinson: Can you also post speed tests from http://speedtest.orcon.net.nz

Paul


on my 30mbit plan i now get

27.88 down
6.01 up

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