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Topic # 114328 15-Feb-2013 22:26 Send private message

Hi All
Been reading for awhile and it's very informative and helpful, I found a thread about something similar to this question and it made me wonder

According to chorus.co.nz I'm in a 10mbps> area but my ADSL Line (I'm connected with Orcon Genius) barely goes over 5

I've posted a screenshot below of my ADSL status from the admin page and I'm hoping someone with knowledge can tell me if I need to get my line checked, or if I just have to put up with it, I don't know how to "read" this information properly


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  Reply # 763276 15-Feb-2013 22:44 Send private message

Well done on giving us the right stats to begin with. That makes it easy to see what the current state is.

You do have quite a bit of downstream attenuation there. Before trying much else, I should ask how many phone jacks you have, whether you have a filter on all of them, or if you have had a master filter installed?

Most physical line issues relate to wiring in the home.

Cheers - N



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  Reply # 763280 15-Feb-2013 23:02 Send private message

Thanks for the quick reply

In Total I have technically 4 phone jacks, but 2 are from back in the pre adsl days when I had 2 phone lines so I wouldn't use up the main line constantly on my 56k modem, once Jetstart came out (128k ADSL) I had it disconnected

So there are 2 usable phone jacks, ok so apparently I don't have a line filter installed lol?

I used to have a little black box wired in to the phone jack I have the genius router installed in to but apparently it's not there anymore? :S I have a d-link in line filter somewhere, Will install that in the phone cable and see how it effects it /facepalm

Just double checking below will work on the genius router, assuming any telepermitted filter will work


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  Reply # 763294 16-Feb-2013 00:07 Send private message

5db noise margin would indicate you're on LLU equipment; when you check on the chorus site does it show you're covered by a cabinet or just exchange?



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  Reply # 763302 16-Feb-2013 00:12 Send private message

Edit: Sorry checked wrong map
should of used http://www.chorus.co.nz/sat


Info it gave me
Capability at this address:
  • ADSL2+
  • VDSL2
Exchange DetailsExchange Area: (Taken out for privacy)

Show ADSL2+ cabinets/areas
Show VDSL2 cabinets/areas

ADSL2+ DetailsCabinet Name: MTL/B 
Status: Completed Jun 2011
VDSL2 DetailsCabinet Name: MTL/B 
Status: Completed Aug 2011

Fibre Upgrade Map says

Network capability:
  • Urban broadband > 10 Mbps

Does that help?

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  Reply # 763323 16-Feb-2013 07:37 Send private message

Phewsion: Edit: Sorry checked wrong map
should of used http://www.chorus.co.nz/sat


Info it gave me
Capability at this address:
  • ADSL2+
  • VDSL2
Exchange DetailsExchange Area: (Taken out for privacy)

Show ADSL2+ cabinets/areas
Show VDSL2 cabinets/areas

ADSL2+ DetailsCabinet Name: MTL/B 
Status: Completed Jun 2011
VDSL2 DetailsCabinet Name: MTL/B 
Status: Completed Aug 2011

Fibre Upgrade Map says

Network capability:
  • Urban broadband > 10 Mbps

Does that help?


That there reads that you are in a cabinetised area (FYI, taking out the name actually makes it harder to provide help - we can't get your address from it!)

If you are, and are connected to the Exchange as sidefx said, then you are likely suffering something called mid-span injection, where your connection is receiving interference from the cabinetised connections and reducing your connection rate.  If this is the case, you need to call up Orcon and confirm, and if so to get them to move you to a UBA (Wholesale) connection.  Your connection speed may as much as double just doing this.

Also, master filters.  These things are absolutely great - if you don't have one, invest in one.  As you're in Auckland, Geekzone member Coffeebaron can do a good price on installations and lots of people here highly recommend his services.

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  Reply # 763336 16-Feb-2013 09:02 Send private message

Taking out details makes it harder to answer your questions.

Your post would indicate that you're serviced by the MTA/B cabinet off the Mount Roskill exchange. Your 6dB nloise margin indicates you're on ULL gear in the exchange.

Your issue is mid span injection which you can read about here http://www.geekzone.co.nz/sbiddle/7872

Ring Orcon and get your connection moved across to a wholesale connection. You may also want to look at installing a master filter as this is essential for the best performance.

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  Reply # 763338 16-Feb-2013 09:05 Send private message

^ Yup, what @Kyanar said. The Mt Roskill exchange is apparently near the post office on Jasper Avenue, so you'd be better off on a wholesale connection connected to the much closer cabinet MTL/B (echange is 2-3 kms away by the looks of it vs less than 500m to that cabinet at a guess; I've often wondered how much affect midpoint injection has as opposed to the simple fact that in cabinetised areas a lot of people are likely to be a lot closer to a cabinet than exchange! Wasn't that the point of the cabinetisation project? :) )

Basically tell Orcon that the chorus SAT shows your area as having been cabinetised and that you would like to switch to a wholesale connection.






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  Reply # 763369 16-Feb-2013 11:07 Send private message

Sorry about this I think I actually do have a master filter installed (If it's the right thing)
Little black box wired directly in to the phone jack the genius router plugs in to


Also I just restarted the router and now my Attenuation for Upload is 47DB and Download is 49DB
Noise Margin dropped to 6db for Upload :(


Edit: Also should add I'm at the opposite end of the highlighted area for the cabinet, the Exchange Adress just said Mt Roskill

Another Edit: I'm confused about my cabinet location, as there is a road side phone box litterally 5 mins walk from my house on the corner of Potter Ave by the Diary, Does that mean I bypassed this and went to another one?

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  Reply # 763373 16-Feb-2013 11:26 Send private message

Phewsion: Sorry about this I think I actually do have a master filter installed (If it's the right thing)
Little black box wired directly in to the phone jack the genius router plugs in to


Can you post a photo?

Phewsion:

Also I just restarted the router and now my Attenuation for Upload is 47DB and Download is 49DB
Noise Margin dropped to 6db for Upload :(


The attenuation shouldn't change that much - if it is changing, then there is probably a physical wiring fault somewhere. Statistically, this is probably within your house.

The noise margin is a figure set by your ISP - on Orcon ULL gear, it will be 6dB, on Chorus gear, 12dB.

Phewsion:
Edit: Also should add I'm at the opposite end of the highlighted area for the cabinet, the Exchange Adress just said Mt Roskill

Another Edit: I'm confused about my cabinet location, as there is a road side phone box litterally 5 mins walk from my house on the corner of Potter Ave by the Diary, Does that mean I bypassed this and went to another one?

The route you walk is not always the route the cables take when they were installed many years ago!



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  Reply # 763382 16-Feb-2013 11:48 Send private message

RunningMan:
Phewsion: Sorry about this I think I actually do have a master filter installed (If it's the right thing)
Little black box wired directly in to the phone jack the genius router plugs in to


Can you post a photo?



Phewsion:

Also I just restarted the router and now my Attenuation for Upload is 47DB and Download is 49DB
Noise Margin dropped to 6db for Upload :(


The attenuation shouldn't change that much - if it is changing, then there is probably a physical wiring fault somewhere. Statistically, this is probably within your house.

The noise margin is a figure set by your ISP - on Orcon ULL gear, it will be 6dB, on Chorus gear, 12dB.

In the first post it was 18db for Upload now it's 6db

Phewsion:
Edit: Also should add I'm at the opposite end of the highlighted area for the cabinet, the Exchange Adress just said Mt Roskill

Another Edit: I'm confused about my cabinet location, as there is a road side phone box litterally 5 mins walk from my house on the corner of Potter Ave by the Diary, Does that mean I bypassed this and went to another one?

The route you walk is not always the route the cables take when they were installed many years ago!


Reason I was confused is you have to go past that cabinet to get to the Jasper Ave cabinet so physically the same direction

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  Reply # 763384 16-Feb-2013 11:51 Send private message

That does look like a very early (old!) master splitter.

Can you open the phone jack and see how it's connected? There may be a corroded join, or the splitter may have failed.

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  Reply # 763394 16-Feb-2013 12:28 Send private message

That is a splitter. It is old but will work fine for ADSL

I don't think your issue is the fabled midspan injection. It is simply the fact Orcon have provisioned you on to LLU gear which will be located in the exchange so your copper loop is much much longer than it should it be.

If Orcon can give you a wholesale connection out of cabinet you are relatively close to. You may not get the same price as what you get off the llu gear but your connection will be vastly improved.

Edit: I will add though, if your attenuation is jumping all over the place it does point to a wiring issue. Get CoffeeBaron to come check it out.

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  Reply # 763396 16-Feb-2013 12:35 Send private message

Sure your modem is not sitting on the voice side of the filter?

Cyril



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  Reply # 763402 16-Feb-2013 12:48 Send private message

RunningMan: That does look like a very early (old!) master splitter.

Can you open the phone jack and see how it's connected? There may be a corroded join, or the splitter may have failed.


I've had that installed since ADSL first came over here back when Telecoms Jetstart was big, I first flicked to Orcon to get lower pings on Quakeworld/Quake 2 servers as they were the "Gamers ISP" :P

Box on right is what the ADSL is plugged in to, I tried switching it to the other one but the line wouldn't even connect, After the ADSL reconnected the Attenuation was still 47/49db so maybe the filter is busted?

I pay Orcon $3 a month for wiring and maintenance should I get them to come look?



For those interested it now looks like this


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  Reply # 763407 16-Feb-2013 13:19 Send private message

OK, that looks to be a properly installed master filter, and you are plugging the modem in to the correct outlet.

Two things jump put at me:

1) the attenuation is not stable - under working conditions, attenuation is proportionate to line length, so should not change

2) the black lead in cable from the wall looks like the very old figure8 style cable, and could possibly be failing.

I'd suggest the next step is get the technician out - if you're paying the couple of dollars a month charge, this is exactly what it is for.

I'm picking a broken or corroded cable somewhere.

Once that is sorted, you can then establish if you are significantly effected by the mid span injection issue noted above.

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