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1571 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 45

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  Reply # 119024 27-Mar-2008 12:25 Send private message

Fossie:

Fossie - I think in your rewrite you need to make some mention of the cards that support hardware based H.264 decoding. This is a critical (probably THE critical) issue for setting up to receive DTT. This forum has become littered with a multitude of threads all asking this type of question - it would be nice if we could just direct to this thread/writeup.

Already working on it, Walt. But I do need some info from you guys, such as cards that work and do not work, PCI-E or AGP.
If people could just leave a comment here or PM me saying if their card is or isn't working, it will be very helpful.


Also for any of the Linux users out there I'm going to start adding hardware details to the Linux guide at http://www.mythtv.co.nz/mythtv/?page_id=4

Any details on working tuner cards as well as processor/video card combinations would be appreciated.

Steve




Generally known online as OpenMedia, now working for Red Hat New Zealand as a Solution Architect for all things Linux, Virtual and of course Cloud. Still playing with MythTV and digital media on the side.

322 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 2


  Reply # 119026 27-Mar-2008 12:50 Send private message

Fossie:

Fossie - I think in your rewrite you need to make some mention of the cards that support hardware based H.264 decoding.  This is a critical (probably THE critical) issue for setting up to receive DTT.  This forum has become littered with a multitude of threads all asking this type of question - it would be nice if we could just direct to this thread/writeup.

Already working on it, Walt. But I do need some info from you guys, such as cards that work and do not work, PCI-E or AGP.
If people could just leave a comment here or PM me saying if their card is or isn't working, it will be very helpful.


You could garner some info from this thread:

http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?ForumId=34&TopicId=20310

The key question for NVidia cards is will the 7xxx series cards do hardware decoding.

For ATi cards, will the 2xxx cards do hardware decoding.

And for both flavours, will the AGP variants support it.

Hawkes Bay
8481 posts

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  Reply # 119027 27-Mar-2008 12:55 Send private message

I moot the creation of a DTT/DVB(x) forum category, and closing this thread. Its a monster, with lots of valuable info, but too many pages, it becomes unusable for someone wanting to quickly solve a small issue.

This is due to the interest and input into this thread - its a good thing, not a bad thing!

If you have any suggestions as to why this shouldn't happen, please speak up by registering your issue here: The Geekzone Suggestion Box Page




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155 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 119032 27-Mar-2008 13:06 Send private message

I Agree.

78 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 119037 27-Mar-2008 13:22 Send private message

WOW I just did a rescan (moved the rabbit ears) and found 17 channels now so I think thats all off them

just checked out the FreeviewHD channel and it looks great, plays with not stutters at all, however im haveing issues with all the other
channels not playing now just getting broken sound and green screen, anyone else getting this today, im guessing its at there end as the FreeviewHD channel plays fine.

155 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 4


  Reply # 119038 27-Mar-2008 13:22 Send private message

walt12:
greminn: Hi There,

Im running the following hardware:

Athlon 64 3700+
1GB TwinMOS RAM
Gigabyte GA-K8N-SLI
Gigabyte 7600GS 256 Heat Pipe Addition [1]
Hauppauge HVR-3000
Dual Boot Windows Vista Home Premium & Windows XP
SONY Bravia 42" LCD

and have Channels TV1/2/3/C4/6/7/Sport Extra running in Tauranga under Vista (where are the rest gone?). I have PowerDVD 7 Ultra and DVBViewer installed and seeing the channels ok... tho my CPU is running HIGH under all channels and maxing out on TV3. This was acually pretty painless and setup went as expected.

Gigabyte says that my card supports PureVideo HD so i have EVR turned on and i am seeing the same kind of Lag, tho it is intermittant, you are noting Fosse. Is my GFX card just not up to it?

Should i upgrade the card or the CPU? Or dont i have enought RAM

Note: This unit is using MCE2005 with the DVB-S tuner in the card and works great.

[1] http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/VGA/Products_Overview.aspx?ProductID=2237


If your CPU usage is >15% then for sure your 7600GS is not hardware accelerating the H.264 decoding.

Anything in the NVidia 8xxx or 9xxx series, or ATi 3xxx will be sure to work and lighten the load on your CPU.



OK.. Im looking for a card that will do the trick here, which is passivly cooled. Currently im connected to the SONY with a VGA cable, as i just cant get 1to1 pixel mapping working on my screen with DVI-HDMI. I dont think that the screen can handle it (from what ive read). Suggestions on cards?

Would a GV-NX86T512H be ok?:

http://www.gigabyte.com.tw/Products/VGA/Products_Overview.aspx?ProductID=2604

322 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 2


  Reply # 119040 27-Mar-2008 13:44 Send private message

At the risk of ticking off Tony (and adding to this behemoth thread) ...

There has been some speculation Freeview will invoke the ICT flag to protect content, which would mean that the HDCP chain would need to be preserved from source to display.

1.  This would require HDMI/DVI-D to be used between HTPC and display to pass the HDCP protocols.

2.  Of course the software solution you use may just ignore the request for HDCP authentification anyway, in which case you're back to selecting your preferred method of connecting source to display.

3.  It seems TVNZ won't be broadcasting any native HD content (save for the Beijing Olympics) for the balance of this year anyway, so I don't see how they can justify invoking the ICT flag for upscaled SD content.

4.  If you wanted to use the HTPC for Blu-Ray playback down the track, then this would require HDCP protocols to be authenticated, but there are ways around even that (which I won't go into).

So bottom line - although you may not need it from the beginning, I think it can't hurt to have a card which is HDCP compliant and allows you to hook up your HTPC to display by either D-Sub/VGA or DVI-D->HDMI.  This covers as many bases as possible.

And I think the card you have nominated would be a great choice, considering all of the above.

155 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 4


  Reply # 119044 27-Mar-2008 13:50 Send private message

walt12: At the risk of ticking off Tony (and adding to this behemoth thread) ...

There has been some speculation Freeview will invoke the ICT flag to protect content, which would mean that the HDCP chain would need to be preserved from source to display.

1.  This would require HDMI/DVI-D to be used between HTPC and display to pass the HDCP protocols.

2.  Of course the software solution you use may just ignore the request for HDCP authentification anyway, in which case you're back to selecting your preferred method of connecting source to display.

3.  It seems TVNZ won't be broadcasting any native HD content (save for the Beijing Olympics) for the balance of this year anyway, so I don't see how they can justify invoking the ICT flag for upscaled SD content.

4.  If you wanted to use the HTPC for Blu-Ray playback down the track, then this would require HDCP protocols to be authenticated, but there are ways around even that (which I won't go into).

So bottom line - although you may not need it from the beginning, I think it can't hurt to have a card which is HDCP compliant and allows you to hook up your HTPC to display by either D-Sub/VGA or DVI-D->HDMI.  This covers as many bases as possible.

And I think the card you have nominated would be a great choice, considering all of the above.


Cool - thanks for that great reply!!!!

Unfortunatly i cant get 1to1 pixel mapping over DVI-HDMI with my screen. Anybody know if a gfx card with an actual HDMI adapter is any better than a DVI-HDMI cable with this? OR am i better off just sticking to a DVI-VGA cable?

Simon

322 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 2


  Reply # 119047 27-Mar-2008 14:01 Send private message

greminn:
walt12: At the risk of ticking off Tony (and adding to this behemoth thread) ...

There has been some speculation Freeview will invoke the ICT flag to protect content, which would mean that the HDCP chain would need to be preserved from source to display.

1.  This would require HDMI/DVI-D to be used between HTPC and display to pass the HDCP protocols.

2.  Of course the software solution you use may just ignore the request for HDCP authentification anyway, in which case you're back to selecting your preferred method of connecting source to display.

3.  It seems TVNZ won't be broadcasting any native HD content (save for the Beijing Olympics) for the balance of this year anyway, so I don't see how they can justify invoking the ICT flag for upscaled SD content.

4.  If you wanted to use the HTPC for Blu-Ray playback down the track, then this would require HDCP protocols to be authenticated, but there are ways around even that (which I won't go into).

So bottom line - although you may not need it from the beginning, I think it can't hurt to have a card which is HDCP compliant and allows you to hook up your HTPC to display by either D-Sub/VGA or DVI-D->HDMI.  This covers as many bases as possible.

And I think the card you have nominated would be a great choice, considering all of the above.


Cool - thanks for that great reply!!!!

Unfortunatly i cant get 1to1 pixel mapping over DVI-HDMI with my screen. Anybody know if a gfx card with an actual HDMI adapter is any better than a DVI-HDMI cable with this? OR am i better off just sticking to a DVI-VGA cable?

Simon


My TV (37" Viera Plasma) doesn't do 1:1 pixel mapping over HDMI either.

Nonetheless I have my HTPC hooked up via DVI-D->HDMI.  Why?  I found the colour palette more natural looking than VGA, and I found the pixel mapping issue was only really problematic for viewing text based content (e.g. web-browsing etc) which I don't use the HTPC for much anyway.  Took some mucking around with the drivers to get the overscan sorted, but its good now.

You may decide otherwise.  Try it and see.



1240 posts

Uber Geek

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  Reply # 119049 27-Mar-2008 14:22 Send private message

I think we should have dvb-s and dvb-t forums. It will make it much easier to answer peoples questions, and for them to get the information.
Then say a post for 'Compatible Hardware' and one for 'Dvbviewer Guide' etc...

322 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 2


  Reply # 119050 27-Mar-2008 14:26 Send private message

Fossie: I think we should have dvb-s and dvb-t forums. It will make it much easier to answer peoples questions, and for them to get the information.


I think we should have a "Digital TV" forum on the front page of listing, with DTT and DTH sub-forums.  I think "Home Theater" has outlived its useful life, and probably should remain reserved for pure HT discussion (i.e. not DVB or HTPC discussion).  My 2c.

136 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 119053 27-Mar-2008 14:45 Send private message

I must have read this thread a dozen times and still I am a bit puzzled, here are my questions, I'll try to keep it simple so as I can understand it.
Ok
I have been looking at the WinTV-HVR-3000
Now , this card supports DVB-s DVB-T and analogue TV (which sound just the ticket) but no mention of MHEG-5 or H264 it is also MPG-2 and not MPG-4
So will this work for our DVB-T? or must it be MPG-4? or will my Graphics card (Nvidia GeForce FX 5200) do that job?
Also will this HVR 3000 do the EPG? as there is no mention of MHEG 5.
My system is: AMD athalon3000+ running at 2.1 Ghz, 1.5 Gig Ram on a Gigabyte K8 Triton GA-k8ns Pro Motherboard. Out-putting to a Panasonic TX-26LX500A

If this card is not suitable what should I be looking at?
Thanx in advance for any suggestions or answers.

1571 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 45

Trusted

  Reply # 119060 27-Mar-2008 15:22 Send private message

walt12: At the risk of ticking off Tony (and adding to this behemoth thread) ...

There has been some speculation Freeview will invoke the ICT flag to protect content, which would mean that the HDCP chain would need to be preserved from source to display.

1. This would require HDMI/DVI-D to be used between HTPC and display to pass the HDCP protocols.

2. Of course the software solution you use may just ignore the request for HDCP authentification anyway, in which case you're back to selecting your preferred method of connecting source to display.

3. It seems TVNZ won't be broadcasting any native HD content (save for the Beijing Olympics) for the balance of this year anyway, so I don't see how they can justify invoking the ICT flag for upscaled SD content.

4. If you wanted to use the HTPC for Blu-Ray playback down the track, then this would require HDCP protocols to be authenticated, but there are ways around even that (which I won't go into).

So bottom line - although you may not need it from the beginning, I think it can't hurt to have a card which is HDCP compliant and allows you to hook up your HTPC to display by either D-Sub/VGA or DVI-D->HDMI. This covers as many bases as possible.

And I think the card you have nominated would be a great choice, considering all of the above.


Now the ICT flag depends on your decoding software or STB to setup the DHCP chain. If you can ignore the flag then you don't need a HDCP capable screen or graphics card.

I'm sure if they enable ICT there will be plenty of registry tweaks for the Windows tools to disable HDCP, plus any recordings to hard drive won't have encryption on them anyway.

Steve




Generally known online as OpenMedia, now working for Red Hat New Zealand as a Solution Architect for all things Linux, Virtual and of course Cloud. Still playing with MythTV and digital media on the side.

322 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 2


  Reply # 119064 27-Mar-2008 15:36 Send private message

NZ DTT requires a CAPTURE/TV-TUNER card which will tune DVB-T.  That's almost every DVB-T card that I know of.

The CAPTURE/TV-TUNER does nothing other than tune and capture the digital stream in its native broadcast format.  Some CAPTURE/TV-TUNER cards are hybrid, meaning they also tune some combination DVB-S and analog channels.

NZ's DTT broadcast format for the video is MPEG4 Part 10, aka AVC, aka H.264.  This is the codec used to encode the transmitted video stream.  Audio is HE-AAC encapsulated in LATM.

The decoding of the video (H.264) is done by either:

1.  CPU - compatible codecs offlay the workload to CPU - requires a very very recent dual core CPU at a min,

2.  GPU - compatible codecs offlay the workload to for-the-task designed video card

Option 1 is not recommended unless you really can't afford a video card which supports Option 2.  Option 2 is preferable for stutter-free performance and viewing.

Extracting the EPG from the EIT or MHEG-5 carriers requires software support.

Given all the above,

1.  Your video card will definitely NOT support H.264 hardware accelerated decoding, so the task would fall to yuor CPU, and,

2.  Your CPU is not up to the job of decoding on the fly H.264 encoded material with stutter-free perfromance.

If your motherboard supports PCI-E, buy a new video card which supports hardware accelerated H.264 decoding (see my posts above), in which case your CPU would be adequate.  If not then you're up for a total upgrade, CPU, motherboard, video card, the works.  And of course the new TV-Tuner DVB-T card.

970 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 20

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  Reply # 119065 27-Mar-2008 15:37 Send private message

Old Grey Geek: I must have read this thread a dozen times and still I am a bit puzzled, here are my questions, I'll try to keep it simple so as I can understand it.
Ok
I have been looking at the WinTV-HVR-3000
Now , this card supports DVB-s DVB-T and analogue TV (which sound just the ticket) but no mention of MHEG-5 or H264 it is also MPG-2 and not MPG-4
So will this work for our DVB-T? or must it be MPG-4? or will my Graphics card (Nvidia GeForce FX 5200) do that job?
Also will this HVR 3000 do the EPG? as there is no mention of MHEG 5.
My system is: AMD athalon3000+ running at 2.1 Ghz, 1.5 Gig Ram on a Gigabyte K8 Triton GA-k8ns Pro Motherboard. Out-putting to a Panasonic TX-26LX500A

If this card is not suitable what should I be looking at?
Thanx in advance for any suggestions or answers.


You are going to need a new computer basically. It will be cheaper to look at the STB wait for HDD based ones.





CPU: Intel 3770k| RAM: F3-2400C10D-16GTX G.Skill Trident X |MB:  Gigabyte Z77X-UD5H-WB | GFX: GV-N660OC-2GD gv-n660oc-2gd GeForce GTX 660 | Monitor: Qnix 27" 2560x1440

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