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  Reply # 162517 5-Sep-2008 16:22 Send private message

Would be nice if we could get in contact with Joker to try and sort some of these things out - obviously he can't do much without information since hes not in NZ and each NDS system varies.

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Master Geek


  Reply # 162532 5-Sep-2008 17:02 Send private message

eXDee: Would be nice if we could get in contact with Joker to try and sort some of these things out - obviously he can't do much without information since hes not in NZ and each NDS system varies.


Or even better get the source code ... after a quick disasemble it looks like compiled C (just going off the printf style format strings), and there's is not much to it ... or start with the Dreambox source ... I thought this was geekzone, there must be someone out there more bored than me Wink




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  Reply # 162545 5-Sep-2008 18:27 Send private message

I'm still not convinced that a Sky card deactivates.  Talking to Cyril over at Audioenz, he believes that perhaps that updates are passed to the Sky STB, and over time if the card is not in the STB they become out of sync (or something like that - I don't really understand it all!!!).  So your Sky card may work happily in your HTPC for ages.  But when you need to put it back into your Sky STB, that's where a call to Sky comes in...

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Master Geek


  Reply # 162551 5-Sep-2008 19:16 Send private message

Satch: I'm still not convinced that a Sky card deactivates.  Talking to Cyril over at Audioenz, he believes that perhaps that updates are passed to the Sky STB, and over time if the card is not in the STB they become out of sync (or something like that - I don't really understand it all!!!).  So your Sky card may work happily in your HTPC for ages.  But when you need to put it back into your Sky STB, that's where a call to Sky comes in...


Exposing that much of their encryption to the likes of Pace, Motorola, Scientific Atlanta, Thomson, Zenith and several other STB manufacturers would be about as smart as posting the algorithm here ... I think you'll find NDSCam, and therefore the sky box, does sod all in this regard ... for that very reason ...



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  Reply # 162556 5-Sep-2008 19:41 Send private message

djaggar:
Satch: I'm still not convinced that a Sky card deactivates.  Talking to Cyril over at Audioenz, he believes that perhaps that updates are passed to the Sky STB, and over time if the card is not in the STB they become out of sync (or something like that - I don't really understand it all!!!).  So your Sky card may work happily in your HTPC for ages.  But when you need to put it back into your Sky STB, that's where a call to Sky comes in...


Exposing that much of their encryption to the likes of Pace, Motorola, Scientific Atlanta, Thomson, Zenith and several other STB manufacturers would be about as smart as posting the algorithm here ... I think you'll find NDSCam, and therefore the sky box, does sod all in this regard ... for that very reason ...


Not sure I understand?  This is specifically what he said

"hmmm, was it really deactivated, or more likely a key roll was sent out but because the box was not working properly (ie card not in) then the key roll was missed so the card is out of sequence, this happens quite often if someone leaves there box off for any period, 4-6weeks is the normal key roll."

It says it better than what I tried to describe!

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Master Geek


  Reply # 162557 5-Sep-2008 19:49 Send private message

Satch:
djaggar:
Satch: I'm still not convinced that a Sky card deactivates.  Talking to Cyril over at Audioenz, he believes that perhaps that updates are passed to the Sky STB, and over time if the card is not in the STB they become out of sync (or something like that - I don't really understand it all!!!).  So your Sky card may work happily in your HTPC for ages.  But when you need to put it back into your Sky STB, that's where a call to Sky comes in...


Exposing that much of their encryption to the likes of Pace, Motorola, Scientific Atlanta, Thomson, Zenith and several other STB manufacturers would be about as smart as posting the algorithm here ... I think you'll find NDSCam, and therefore the sky box, does sod all in this regard ... for that very reason ...


Not sure I understand?  This is specifically what he said

"hmmm, was it really deactivated, or more likely a key roll was sent out but because the box was not working properly (ie card not in) then the key roll was missed so the card is out of sequence, this happens quite often if someone leaves there box off for any period, 4-6weeks is the normal key roll."

It says it better than what I tried to describe!


Your description made it sound like the STB & the card both had a copy of the keys, for them to become "out of sync". All that happens is that the keys stored in the card don't get updated, so that when they have all "rolled over" you haven't got a new key to decode it with (because that bit of NDSCam that updates the card with new keys is not apparently working).



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  Reply # 162610 6-Sep-2008 09:14 Send private message

djaggar:
Your description made it sound like the STB & the card both had a copy of the keys, for them to become "out of sync". All that happens is that the keys stored in the card don't get updated, so that when they have all "rolled over" you haven't got a new key to decode it with (because that bit of NDSCam that updates the card with new keys is not apparently working).


I'm by no means an expert on this stuff.  In fact I know very little and go by what others tell me.

If you think you know exactly how it works, please detail it here.  A number of people have been asking the question about card deactivation, so I'm sure your explanation will be welcome by all.

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  Reply # 162675 6-Sep-2008 19:27 Send private message

Satch:
djaggar:
Your description made it sound like the STB & the card both had a copy of the keys, for them to become "out of sync". All that happens is that the keys stored in the card don't get updated, so that when they have all "rolled over" you haven't got a new key to decode it with (because that bit of NDSCam that updates the card with new keys is not apparently working).


I'm by no means an expert on this stuff. In fact I know very little and go by what others tell me.

If you think you know exactly how it works, please detail it here. A number of people have been asking the question about card deactivation, so I'm sure your explanation will be welcome by all.


Hey Satch, go back a page (page 19), taylorit and djaggar have described it well.

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  Reply # 162690 6-Sep-2008 21:37 Send private message

Satch: I'm by no means an expert on this stuff. In fact I know very little and go by what others tell me.

If you think you know exactly how it works, please detail it here. A number of people have been asking the question about card deactivation, so I'm sure your explanation will be welcome by all.


Wikipedia has a brief explaination: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conditional_access

I remember if you left your Sky box (when I was a sky subscriber) unplugged for longer than 8 weeks then your card would stop working and the only way to get it working again was to ring sky as leaving it on overnight didn't resolve the issue.  You could always take this conversation over to Austech, as that site they tend to discuss this sort of thing in more detail.




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  Reply # 162742 7-Sep-2008 11:45 Send private message

Coming back to the jaycar card... did anyone actually check the voltages on the card when they finished putting it together?

Mine seem somewhat lower than they suggest in the guide and not being the expert solderer that perhaps is needed, I am questioning my work.

Haven't tried putting the card in yet as I need to get a serial - usb converter.

cheers

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Master Geek


  Reply # 162747 7-Sep-2008 12:57 Send private message

graemer: Coming back to the jaycar card... did anyone actually check the voltages on the card when they finished putting it together?

Mine seem somewhat lower than they suggest in the guide and not being the expert solderer that perhaps is needed, I am questioning my work.

Haven't tried putting the card in yet as I need to get a serial - usb converter.

cheers


Which voltage? You might check the resistance from power to ground and check it is inline with whatever is across those in the circuit. I assume you have made the MkII version that plugs into an IDE ATX pocwer plug?

If you have a serial to USB convertor you also need some virtual serial port software. NDScam wants to talk to COMx ...

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Master Geek
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  Reply # 162905 7-Sep-2008 18:47 Send private message

Forgive me if I've missed it the thread is so long now. I'm pretty sure if you have two or more tuners you can decrypt and record two channels right? How about if you only have one tuner but it's on the same multiplex (transponder)? I'm know if it's unencrypted you can record two or more channels (basically up to the whole multiplex presuming your card and HD can manage it) with some software programs that support it (DVBviewer is one of them). I presume you can also us record the encrypted channels and then later decrypt them. But is it possible with current software to record decrypt and record multiple channels from the same multiplex with one tuner?

How many multiplexes are there for Sky anyway and what channels are on what? Edit: Nevermind found this http://www.lyngsat.com/packages/skynz.html Interesting, the 3 Sports channels are on seperate transponders although at least the Rugby Channels and Sky Sport 2 are together (Sport 1 usually shows whats on Rugby if there's any interesting Rugby on anyway). Indeed it even has BBC and UKTV. Indeed IMHO probably one of the most useful multiplexes if your into sport and have the rugby channel.

Cheers


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  Reply # 162952 7-Sep-2008 22:48 Send private message

I presume you can also us record the encrypted channels and then later decrypt them. But is it possible with current software to record decrypt and record multiple channels from the same multiplex with one tuner?


yes this is possible. i mentioned in one of my earlier posts that i can record the encrypted streams then decrypt later after recording. i use altdvb to grab the encrypted streams then use "offline descrambler" with ndscam to decrypt the recorded streams, i can record as many encrypted streams as i want from the same transponder but its got to be in ts format and include the ecm pid aswell as the video and pid's else it wont work. its not possible to (not with my set up anyway) to record and decrypt several streams in realtime from the same transponder.

by the way i hardly ever watch sky in realtime on my pc due to glitches every 10secs, i watch thru the sky digi box and use my pc solely for recording, "offline descrambler" does seem to solve the problem with 10 sec glitches tho allowing me to extract the mpeg video/audio streams to seperate files then author onto dvd.

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Master Geek


  Reply # 163016 8-Sep-2008 10:18 Send private message

djaggar:
Satch: I'm still not convinced that a Sky card deactivates.? Talking to Cyril over at Audioenz, he believes that perhaps that updates are passed to the Sky STB, and over time if the card is not in the STB they become out of sync (or something like that - I don't really understand it all!!!).? So your Sky card may work happily in your HTPC for ages.? But when you need to put it back into your Sky STB, that's where a call to Sky comes in...


Exposing that much of their encryption to the likes of Pace, Motorola, Scientific Atlanta, Thomson, Zenith and several other STB manufacturers would be about as smart as posting the algorithm here ... I think you'll find NDSCam, and therefore the sky box, does sod all in this regard ... for that very reason ...


Yes, the STB is basically a dumb terminal all it does is receive, process data and hold a CAM. Sky boxes are flashed with a locked down custom image of course with there custom branding etc.. The STB stores no info in regards to SEED KEY TABLE, all are held on the card. The probelm lies with the card design, older smart cards even from NDS housed the RAM/ROM stack close to the outside edge and was able to be read. Now the new design you can not gain access to the RAM/ROM stack until the card has booted up and internal program running. Any attempts to play or issue random commands to the ROM/RAM stack and the card can blow the fuse links and become useless.

Older Sky TV - Videocrypt used to use a system of soft & hard scramble. With soft scramble the decoder would assemble the picture based upon the Hex Header received, and hard scramble required the decoder to talk to the card. From memory it was F8 & D8 commands.

However with DVB-S they don't do this anymore so everything goes via the CAM/CARD, thus they reduced the amount of queries to the card. Older system was about 5 times every 2.5 sec @ 9600 baud, new seems to be 1 every 10 secs @ 38400 baud (effective).

It is a shame that the current version of NDSCAM won't process the NANO commands to the card and remove the need to swap out. As I have 2 45xxx cards I'm going to see how long it runs for before game over..

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Master Geek


  Reply # 163028 8-Sep-2008 11:08 Send private message

And now for some good news - HD channels work.

MyTheatre 4 Beta, NDSCAM 0.0.0.7, 45x sky card (of course for HD), old Jaycar reader

I can't get ATI HW acceleration to work with MyTheatre (can't see any option in the menus, and hacking the registery didn't seem to work either), so picture was very jumpy on old P4 Presecot 3.2 GHz - CPU maxed out at 100%. Audio OK ...

Watched Sport 1 HD, TV3 HD & Aux HD (cartoon network in SD???). The version of MyTheatre is very unstable with S2 cards so runs for about one minute and dies ... I didn't look further as I doubt it is anything more than beta s2 code.

Now scratching my head over GBPVR (hopefully more stable S2 support) and a manual S2 setup

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