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  Reply # 657912 18-Jul-2012 18:33 Send private message

menabassily:
JimmyH:
ibuksh: just keep in mind, using Odin will void your warranty..


The Networks may say that, loudly and frequently. However, if the phone failed because of something unrelated to the firmware update you did (say, a faulty screen?), then I doubt trying to exclude it from warranty coverage because of an unofficial firmware update would withstand a challenge under the Consumer Guarantees Act if you took it to the Disputes Tribunal. Likely, even mentioning the CGA would make them cave before this point.


So I'm not sure if I got this right, so you're saying that even a rooted phone "should" be warranted/serviced for not firmware related issue (screen for example)??

I'm interested in more details :)


Same principal as an insurance company trying to decline a claim because a vehicle had no W.O.F. They still have to prove that a fault with the vehicle (which would have been detected during a W.O.F check) contributed to the accident.

In the case of a faulty phone Samsung/retailer would still have to prove flashing the firmware contributed to the fault before they refuse to honour the warranty.

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Uber Geek
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  Reply # 657990 18-Jul-2012 20:35 Send private message

lokhor:
ibuksh: It hasnt actually happened with me but I have heard from a mate who was told his phone wont be covered under warranty coz unofficial firmware can damage the hardware that its not meant to be running on from the manufacturer


If you flash back to stock they can't tell..


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 658031 18-Jul-2012 21:39 Send private message

In New Zealand it is legal to change your firmware as you own the device. They are also within their right to refuse you warranty based on software issues and software controlled hardware (such as the battery). If it's a main component that the software cannot affect, then they cannot refuse you as they cannot prove beyond reasonable doubt you are responsible.

You'de have one hell of a fight on your hands though!




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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 658050 18-Jul-2012 22:10 Send private message

It's worth writing to/ emailing Samsung to ask if rooting does actually void the warranty. I know that sounds a weird thing to say, given the printed notices they have, but you might be surprised. I wrote to HTC some time back with that same question and they confirmed for me, in writing, that the hardware was fully covered even if that particular model of phone was rooted and a different ROM flashed onto it. 

You don't lose anything by asking. Just tell them you want the facts so you can settle an argument ;)

314 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 658309 19-Jul-2012 11:40 Send private message

Elpie: It's worth writing to/ emailing Samsung to ask if rooting does actually void the warranty. I know that sounds a weird thing to say, given the printed notices they have, but you might be surprised. I wrote to HTC some time back with that same question and they confirmed for me, in writing, that the hardware was fully covered even if that particular model of phone was rooted and a different ROM flashed onto it. 

You don't lose anything by asking. Just tell them you want the facts so you can settle an argument ;)


I did this with Samsung about a year or so ago. I was asking them if flashing a different region's official stock samsung firmware to a device would void the warranty, and they confirmed it does. This is because you have to use something other than their official update medium to do so (Kies).

Rooting and custom roms, recoveries, and bootloaders etc are the same. While I agree to some level that they should not decline a warranty for a fault based on hardware that is not controlled by the firmware you may have modified, the manufacturer is still within their rights to do so.

However as mentioned before, it may not be completely ethical to do so and you would have a fight on your hands if trying to claim warranty on a modded device.


@ lokhor - Samsung devices have a flash counter that tallies the number of times firmware has been flashed using anything other than Kies. I believe the GS3 actually displays this on the download mode screen, on others it is not displayed on the device itself, just a string of code that can be read with diagnostic equipment.

There is a way to reset the flash counter - XDA developer Chainfire has come up with ways of doing this.

So while you are correct to a degree, you will still need to reset the flash counter to make your firmware modding completely untraceable.

411 posts

Ultimate Geek


  Reply # 658322 19-Jul-2012 11:44 Send private message

Elpie: It's worth writing to/ emailing Samsung to ask if rooting does actually void the warranty. I know that sounds a weird thing to say, given the printed notices they have, but you might be surprised. I wrote to HTC some time back with that same question and they confirmed for me, in writing, that the hardware was fully covered even if that particular model of phone was rooted and a different ROM flashed onto it. 

You don't lose anything by asking. Just tell them you want the facts so you can settle an argument ;)


I asked them when I was trying to upgrade my GS2 to official ICS.. and they confirmed that using anything (eg. Odin) other than kies to upgrade would void my warranty.. lucky for me I didnt brick it when upgrading to custom roms and there was only 1-2 months left on the warranty anyway..

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Geek


  Reply # 660122 22-Jul-2012 22:35 Send private message

On a Samsung Galaxy S3 it you flash a stock firmware its all right. Its only if you root your phone and load or "flash" a custom binary on it that the birnary counter ticks to one. Easy fix though.

Look up triangle away. Sovles any problems if need to get your binary count back to one.

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Geek


  Reply # 660276 23-Jul-2012 11:07 Send private message

uglyb0b:

While I agree to some level that they should not decline a warranty for a fault based on hardware that is not controlled by the firmware you may have modified, the manufacturer is still within their rights to do so.


I don't think that's true in New Zealand. The Consumer Guarantees Act would hold, rather than the manufacturer's warranty terms. I can't see that refusal to fix a hardware problem because the owner changed the software would be acceptable, except in the specific case where the software contributed to the fault. 

314 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 660377 23-Jul-2012 14:19 Send private message

MikeSands:
uglyb0b:

While I agree to some level that they should not decline a warranty for a fault based on hardware that is not controlled by the firmware you may have modified, the manufacturer is still within their rights to do so.


I don't think that's true in New Zealand. The Consumer Guarantees Act would hold, rather than the manufacturer's warranty terms. I can't see that refusal to fix a hardware problem because the owner changed the software would be acceptable, except in the specific case where the software contributed to the fault. 


That's my point. The manufacturer is within their rights to specify what is and is not covered under THEIR warranty, (they make the product, they decide what they cover under their warranty) however this will not override local law. Making a claim in this situation however WILL be difficult, regardless of whether or not you are entitled to it.

411 posts

Ultimate Geek


  Reply # 660381 23-Jul-2012 14:22 Send private message

That and plus when you phone is down.. how long do you want to fuss with the manufacturer that they should repair it.. even if you win finally and they fix it, it will most likely be a long battle during which you would have moved onto another phone or you might get frustrated enough to pay for the repairs and get on with it..

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Ultimate Geek
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Reply # 660397 23-Jul-2012 14:52 Send private message

Here is what I have concluded from all this:

If you want to use warranty after rooting or using a custom ROM (without a court/dispute) that's what I am going to do:


  1. I will back up my stock ROM, after checking there are no updated available using this guide: [How to] Download/Backup your samsung stock firmware from Samsung servers including your provider packages
  2. I will ROOT, flash a custom ROM, or whatever changes I want to make.
  3. Now I have a problem with my phone that I believe warranty should take care of. I will give them the phone EXACTLY as I got it from them (software wise). Meaning not rooted, with the latest version of their ROM and 0 counter.  But how can I do this:
  4. Backup my files, apps and data.
  5. Reset the Counter (Video Tutorial How To Reset Galaxy S3 Flash Counter (set to 0))
  6. Unroot my phone - (How to)
  7. Flash my Stock original firmware ([How to] Download/Backup your samsung stock firmware from Samsung servers including your provider packages)
  8. Check if the issue still exist, then it is not software dependant and they are legally obligated to fix that issue, since it is in the same state as you have purchased it (software wise).

Any comments?? 

464 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 660398 23-Jul-2012 14:55 Send private message

menabassily: Here is what I have concluded from all this:

If you want to use warranty after rooting or using a custom ROM (without a court/dispute) that's what I am going to do:


  1. I will back up my stock ROM, after checking there are no updated available using this guide: [How to] Download/Backup your samsung stock firmware from Samsung servers including your provider packages
  2. I will ROOT, flash a custom ROM, or whatever changes I want to make.
  3. Now I have a problem with my phone that I believe warranty should take care of. I will give them the phone EXACTLY as I got it from them (software wise). Meaning not rooted, with the latest version of their ROM and 0 counter.  But how can I do this:
  4. Backup my files, apps and data.
  5. Reset the Counter (Video Tutorial How To Reset Galaxy S3 Flash Counter (set to 0))
  6. Unroot my phone - (How to)
  7. Flash my Stock original firmware ([How to] Download/Backup your samsung stock firmware from Samsung servers including your provider packages)
  8. Check if the issue still exist, then it is not software dependant and they are legally obligated to fix that issue, since it is in the same state as you have purchased it (software wise).

Any comments?? 


Of course this won't work if the issue you want fixed is a dead non recharging phone, broken non responsive buttons, or anything else that will make the above steps impossible. But I would still claim warranty if this happens.

411 posts

Ultimate Geek


  Reply # 660400 23-Jul-2012 14:56 Send private message

menabassily:
menabassily: Here is what I have concluded from all this:

If you want to use warranty after rooting or using a custom ROM (without a court/dispute) that's what I am going to do:


  1. I will back up my stock ROM, after checking there are no updated available using this guide: [How to] Download/Backup your samsung stock firmware from Samsung servers including your provider packages
  2. I will ROOT, or flash a custom ROM, or whatever changes I want to make.
  3. Now I have a problem with my phone that I believe warranty should take care of. I will give them the phone EXACTLY as I got it from them (software wise). Meaning not rooted, with the latest version of their ROM and 0 counter.  But how can I do this:
  4. Backup my files, apps and data.
  5. Reset the Counter (Video Tutorial How To Reset Galaxy S3 Flash Counter (set to 0))
  6. Unroot my phone - (How to)
  7. Flash my Stock original firmware ([How to] Download/Backup your samsung stock firmware from Samsung servers including your provider packages)\
  8. Check if the issue still exist, then it is not software dependant and they are legally obligated to fix that issue, since it is in the same state as you have purchased it (software wise).

Any comments?? 


Of course this won't work if the issue you want fixed is a dead non recharging phone, or broken non responsive buttons, or anything else that will make the above steps impossible. But I would still claim warranty if this happens.


That kind of sums up everything I guess

314 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 12


  Reply # 660406 23-Jul-2012 15:06 Send private message

menabassily: Here is what I have concluded from all this:

If you want to use warranty after rooting or using a custom ROM (without a court/dispute) that's what I am going to do:


  1. I will back up my stock ROM, after checking there are no updated available using this guide: [How to] Download/Backup your samsung stock firmware from Samsung servers including your provider packages
  2. I will ROOT, flash a custom ROM, or whatever changes I want to make.
  3. Now I have a problem with my phone that I believe warranty should take care of. I will give them the phone EXACTLY as I got it from them (software wise). Meaning not rooted, with the latest version of their ROM and 0 counter.  But how can I do this:
  4. Backup my files, apps and data.
  5. Reset the Counter (Video Tutorial How To Reset Galaxy S3 Flash Counter (set to 0))
  6. Unroot my phone - (How to)
  7. Flash my Stock original firmware ([How to] Download/Backup your samsung stock firmware from Samsung servers including your provider packages)
  8. Check if the issue still exist, then it is not software dependant and they are legally obligated to fix that issue, since it is in the same state as you have purchased it (software wise).

Any comments?? 


Well said. I would do exactly the same thing. I wouldn't even consider making a warranty claim without doing all of this.

464 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 6
Inactive user


  Reply # 660409 23-Jul-2012 15:07 Send private message

On the other hand some people like me HAVE to stay with the stock firmware as long as they still want their Touch2Pay to work, until someone separates the Touch2Pay needed files to be added to custom firmwares.

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