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  Reply # 944825 3-Dec-2013 15:53 One person supports this post Send private message

andrewNZ: 

While I agree that there is some responsibility with the customer, the telco still has some responsibility. Were are at the beginning of a new technology "age", many people just don't understand most of the finer points. You can't see a megabyte, and it's hard to see data being used. The only party who knows for certain how much data you've used is the telco.


Notifications are sent out by SMS to warn you that you are low on plan and/or pack data. Also, balance requests on 2degrees are accurate to within 10MB (which is the most common system reservation size) even for postpay, due to our use of real-time charging for all subscribers. This information is accessible either from the self-care web site (which is free to access), or via USSD. We used to send out SMS notifications when the data was completely used up too, but we turned it off because subscribers complained about the spam. (Can't win either way!)

And don't forget spend control is always there.




iPad Air + iPhone 5S + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.



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  Reply # 944878 3-Dec-2013 17:36 Send private message

SaltyNZ: (Can't win either way!)


The 'win' here is to get packages that make sense.

I like the 'plug and play' features in the prepay space, but getting a new mobile at a reasonable price (at the time) the best thing seemed to be to get on a plan and find a balance between plan cost and hardware cost.

In the title of this thread I said "Grumpy...", let's not read that as "F**&&&^&, PI$###E# O%^^^"... it does just mean that I'm grumpy about it and I'm on GZ having a bit of a rant, getting some perspective and inviting others to chat about it a bit.

For those who don't know, I do have Salty's work email address.  If I was really wanting this to 'just be fixed' I'd have just called him up on the phone and had a chat.

But I wanted to put this out there for some convo.

Case 1.

I took one mate in to the store a while back (read 6 months), wanted some minutes, text and talk time.

He was new to a smart phone and has enjoyed many of its benefits, but at first just wanted to use minutes.  I signed him up for 200 minutes, we were told that he'd get some 'free texts' with the next 'top up' and I knew he'd need a chunk of data for his Android to actually work well.

The outcome was not good from my point of view.  The sales person was wrong.  He didn't get free texts with the update.  He simply didn't know the product range properly.

The phone then chewed up the $3 or $4 dollars credit it had on it and wouldn't let him text at all.  He'd just put over $120 dollars on the phone.

He then paid for a text pack, but then discovered he couldn't text his sister in Australia.

The outcome got worse.

In this case, come on guys, every plan has to come with some texting.  We're just kidding if we think that it doesn't.

Case 2.

Took another mate, who was having issues with Vodafone, into the store, signed him up for 2Degrees.  He moved house.  Unfortunately to a network dead spot.

How do I put this politely.... He's 'challenged'. 

Eventually I moved to him to a Telecom prepaid account earlier in the month.  He has since discovered that Telecoms network is not much better at the same address.

He was less than impressed at being told to put his 3G phone to 2G to make it 'still not work'.

In this case, we really don't need to ask people for detailed information and phone them up to chat about network issues that we can just see in the network and fix.

Case 3.

Wifes phone - MF is the server big enough for that rant?


Case 4. 

My phone.

In cases 3 & 4 I think all new high value phones need to come with 5GB of data in the first month.  In the case of my iPhone and I suspect the S4, it went nuts downloading updates and getting all the features online long before I discovered most of the cost control features.


Reality.

There's nothing new here at all. 

The truth is that I've just had a string of poor experiences.  I suspect I've just been a bit unlucky, but not aided by the system just having got to complex.

When I got my first mobile it was $70 a month and 70c/minute for calls with 1 minute billing.  It couldn't be simpler.

I guess what I'm asking is that we focus on making stuff a bit more simple and that 2Degrees needs to keep track with the value curve on their plans.  With the prexmas deals about, I feel a bit ripped off right now.

D







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  Reply # 944945 3-Dec-2013 20:02 6 people support this post Send private message

I'm sorry, while I sympathise with your troubles, how much simpler can it be than $x = x minutes, y texts and z MB data?




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  Reply # 945046 3-Dec-2013 23:24 Send private message

Inphinity: I'm sorry, while I sympathise with your troubles, how much simpler can it be than $x = x minutes, y texts and z MB data?


As an IT industry we don't actually have to make sure the customer has a good experience.

As a customer, people don't have to purchase from the IT industry.

A System Administrator found the bugs in the WINZ computer system when he was in one of their offices attempting to print a copy of his CV.

At the time, he was looking for work.





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  Reply # 945105 4-Dec-2013 08:45 Send private message

If I were you I would jump ship to a provider that won't cause you such nightmares.

-A




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  Reply # 945119 4-Dec-2013 09:08 Send private message

AidanS: If I were you I would jump ship to a provider that won't cause you such nightmares.

-A


That is the freedom of being a consumer but can I ask, which of the 4 "nightmares" presented by the OP can be solved by any of the other providers?

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  Reply # 945125 4-Dec-2013 09:21 Send private message

z2k:
AidanS: If I were you I would jump ship to a provider that won't cause you such nightmares.

-A


That is the freedom of being a consumer but can I ask, which of the 4 "nightmares" presented by the OP can be solved by any of the other providers?


After skim reading it seems the core issues are; staffs' lack of knowledge of the products, lack of support, the over complicated billing system and then some tough luck. If one person has had so many bad experiences with one company, surely the logical concluding steps to take would be to switch providers? Maybe toss your luck in their hands and see how it plays.

Personally I wouldn't stand for all this, if the same company kept failing me.

-A






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  Reply # 945208 4-Dec-2013 10:37 Send private message

AidanS: ... surely the logical concluding steps to take would be to switch providers? Maybe toss your luck in their hands and see how it plays.

Personally I wouldn't stand for all this, if the same company kept failing me.

-A


When I was in my 20's I held this view. 

Today in my 40's I think quite differently.

I see this as collaboration.

Geekzone is the best platform, in my view currently, to just share the issues.

2Degrees are here, they are reading and they are giving consideration to the issues as I present them.

You are quite right in your summary of events.  Everyone gets some 'tough luck' from time to time and some times it comes in runs as well.

Other industry players are also reading and so are regulators. 

Everyone, while not commenting, is thinking about the issues presented and giving consideration to what, if any, changed is needed to improve customer experience and eliminate situations like mine from happening again in the future.

Others are quite right in their suggestion that moving from provider to provider is not the answer here.

The answer is to fix the problems, not just keep passing the customers around a dysfunctional system.

My view is that Simon, John and Peter (the three carriers) are here in a limited way to just observe issues like these and balance out the obvious customer frustration with the need for business improvement/change.

D






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  Reply # 945209 4-Dec-2013 10:37 Send private message

Inphinity: I'm sorry, while I sympathise with your troubles, how much simpler can it be than $x = x minutes, y texts and z MB data?


I haven't used 2Degrees, so I can't really comment on whether it's easy or not. But I have looked at them several times, and I struggle to get my head around it, I couldn't tell you exactly what is confusing, but I never come away thinking "wow that looks easy"

Geekzone has some pretty smart cookies and I'm afraid them saying it's easy doesn't make it so. I watch normal people struggle with the craziest little things every damn day. I don't understand why these things are difficult for them, they just are and the only solution is to make it easier.

What I'd say to 2Degrees is:
If a smart person is having trouble, how are normal people getting on? You can't sit there and say "it's fine, you're doing it wrong", you designed the system, you know how it works, so you have no clue whether it's easy or not. By the time a smart person tells you it's hard, it's ridiculously hard for the average numpty.

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  Reply # 945219 4-Dec-2013 10:43 Send private message

DonGould:

[snip]



I completely understand where you're coming from. But at the end of the day it's not the consumer's job to "fix" what's wrong. From the 'average' consumers' point of view, they (/we) want it to work and they (/we) want it now. If one company is struggling to provide this, whether it be through fault of their own, fault of their systems, or simply a "bad luck" experience then the 'average' consumer won't wait around for them to fix it.

Hence my original response is reflecting the common action that would be taken from the "average" consumer. However, many GeekZone users aren't your 'average' consumer, so at a second look it is good you're willing to provide the time and patience to try get these issues corrected.

-A






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  Reply # 945227 4-Dec-2013 10:53 Send private message

z2k: That is the freedom of being a consumer but can I ask, which of the 4 "nightmares" presented by the OP can be solved by any of the other providers?


Yes in the race to have the best feature set and most options, the space has got over complex to the point where the providers staff can't keep up with the product offerings.

When purchasing 2 iPhone 5's recently, the sales guy spent 10 minutes presenting the hardware to us (badly) and then 45 minutes fighting with paper work.

MOVING THE O21...

To add to my frustration I had to purchase a Vodafone SIM card to move my phone number to my new phone!

Yes, I had 021 114 0699 on a 2degrees prepay, they gave me a new number on a new sim with the iPhone, I then had to purchase a Vodafone SIM, churn the number to it, then churn the number back to 2Degrees because 2degrees don't have a system to move the number from one sim to another!

TIME TO CANCEL?

8 weeks later, I'm at the point of just canceling my contract and dropping FREE Telecom SIM cards in both phones and going back to $20 prepay.

Moving to 'on account' has cost me a fortune and way more than the value I received from making a 24 month commitment.

Within 8 weeks, I've found that the 'pre xmas' deals I can get from other providers are now on par with the $40 a month I'm paying (twice as much as simple prepay!)

SMASHED IPHONE!

What's more, I managed to smash my iPhone within 5 days of getting it. 

We did purchase covers for the phones.  The "New Zealand Made" covers will not work with common docking appliances (we purchased 2).  So the covers got returned.  The store didn't have a product that would work, so eventually we purchased different covers from the Vodafone store in the Shirley mall (yes John you can thank Andrew for me, as he helped with both covers and also sorting out getting me a SIM card so we could move my number between networks to move it between 2Degrees SIMs).

Yes it was my fault that I had the phone in my pocket without a cover.  I should have just put it back in the box until I managed to get it sorted out.

NO INSURANCE

The whole process of purchasing the iPhone took so long to do the paper work that the sales guy simply didn't get around to selling me insurance.  So once the iPhone got smashed I was facing a $450 dollar bill to fix it.

WHY AM I GRUMPY....






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  Reply # 945230 4-Dec-2013 11:01 Send private message

andrewNZ:
Inphinity: I'm sorry, while I sympathise with your troubles, how much simpler can it be than $x = x minutes, y texts and z MB data?


I haven't used 2Degrees, so I can't really comment on whether it's easy or not. But I have looked at them several times, and I struggle to get my head around it, I couldn't tell you exactly what is confusing, but I never come away thinking "wow that looks easy"

Geekzone has some pretty smart cookies and I'm afraid them saying it's easy doesn't make it so. I watch normal people struggle with the craziest little things every damn day. I don't understand why these things are difficult for them, they just are and the only solution is to make it easier.

What I'd say to 2Degrees is:
If a smart person is having trouble, how are normal people getting on? You can't sit there and say "it's fine, you're doing it wrong", you designed the system, you know how it works, so you have no clue whether it's easy or not. By the time a smart person tells you it's hard, it's ridiculously hard for the average numpty.


Sure, once you add all sorts of addons and bonus packs and topup freebies, it can get confusing. But they're not the only provider who does this.

Just look at their plans. Here's some examples:

$29 Carryover Plan
160 Carryover Minutes to NZ & Aussie
Unlimited Text* to NZ & Aussie
500MB Carryover Data

$49 Carryover Plan
300 Carryover Minutes to NZ & Aussie
Unlimited Text* to NZ & Aussie
1GB Carryover Data

$89 Carryover Plan
600 Carryover Minutes to NZ & Aussie
Unlimited Text* to NZ & Aussie
1.5GB Carryover Data


I'm not necessarily saying it's not confusing for people, but how would you make it simpler? There are three primary service types people want - calling minutes, texts, and data. These plans give you a price in dollars, for a specified number of each of the three core services.

What's a realistic example of making it simpler?






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  Reply # 945233 4-Dec-2013 11:10 Send private message

I think the key is a good usage app. At Telecom we released one recently, and got good feedback from GZ, so that does take the management issue away as it can be monitored regularly until the user is at peace with a new phone. If it includes plan upgrade or bolt on capability, thats another convenience. I do not know what apps other providers have, but its a good first option to be easily aware of usage issues before they become a $ problem.

And I say the above, not to marginalise Dons issues, but just feedback

Cheers

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  Reply # 945250 4-Dec-2013 11:19 Send private message

DonGould: MOVING THE O21...

To add to my frustration I had to purchase a Vodafone SIM card to move my phone number to my new phone!

Yes, I had 021 114 0699 on a 2degrees prepay, they gave me a new number on a new sim with the iPhone, I then had to purchase a Vodafone SIM, churn the number to it, then churn the number back to 2Degrees because 2degrees don't have a system to move the number from one sim to another!


I have moved an 021 number from one 2degrees prepay sim to another.  I have done this a few times.  I *think* it required a blank SIM (i.e. not a pre-provisioned prepaid SIM) but the shop took care of that.

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  Reply # 945273 4-Dec-2013 11:50 Send private message

tdgeek: I think the key is a good usage app. At Telecom we released one recently, and got good feedback from GZ, so that does take the management issue away as it can be monitored regularly until the user is at peace with a new phone. If it includes plan upgrade or bolt on capability, thats another convenience. I do not know what apps other providers have, but its a good first option to be easily aware of usage issues before they become a $ problem.

And I say the above, not to marginalise Dons issues, but just feedback

Cheers


Plus 1.

The 2degrees app is actually a great tool for managing ones account as well. It allows you to see your current spend, your current owed, your text/voice/data allocations and expiry dates, as well as the purchase of new addons. Coupled with one of the free widget's out there in the Play store (Android only ofcourse) and you've got quick and simple access to your balances anywhere you've got a data connection. There is nil excuse for overage charges if one uses the tools (and spend controls) available to regularly monitor their usage, that is if they know about them though.

I can see how someone new to modern platforms may not know to search out these sort of apps so it would be great if the store could suggest it to new customers when they upgrade to the latest shinny shinny as part of the spiel.

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