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1876 posts

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  Reply # 701017 14-Oct-2012 16:30 Send private message quote this post

stevehodge:
I don't think DLM changes once a week - going through all the reported DLM changes in this thread no one has had weekly DLM changes. Monthly changes seem to be the norm when DLM is not in it's rapid change state making changes every 2 days.


I barely saw any changes in the initial 10 day period other than it dropping me to DLM3.  

My recent changes though were fairly quick, with each one happening ~2-3 days apart I think (to get from DLM6 to DLM1)

Maybe once it decides you're due an upgrade (and maybe the error rate is low enough) it does them quite quick?

Also interesting that a few people have reported no changes at all in the 30 days or say after the initial 10 day DLM.. and then changes.  Maybe it chooses a level during the initial 10 day period, then sticks with it for a good month to gather data, then when it has enough data makes more changes. Though I know other people have had other experiences!  




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  Reply # 701056 14-Oct-2012 17:28 Send private message quote this post

I have had regular weekly resyncs before. It does depend on whether there is anything to resync for however; if DLM doesn't think there is any benefit to changing profiles it won't resync. Also, the official docs say that DLM profile changes are weekly.

100 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 701059 14-Oct-2012 17:40 Send private message quote this post

I do want to game but I am happy to just wait a week and see what happens. I will be calling Snap tomorrow to give them an update on what has been happening with my case.

378 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 701064 14-Oct-2012 18:06 Send private message quote this post

sidefx:
stevehodge:
I don't think DLM changes once a week - going through all the reported DLM changes in this thread no one has had weekly DLM changes. Monthly changes seem to be the norm when DLM is not in it's rapid change state making changes every 2 days.


I barely saw any changes in the initial 10 day period other than it dropping me to DLM3.  

My recent changes though were fairly quick, with each one happening ~2-3 days apart I think (to get from DLM6 to DLM1)

Maybe once it decides you're due an upgrade (and maybe the error rate is low enough) it does them quite quick?

Also interesting that a few people have reported no changes at all in the 30 days or say after the initial 10 day DLM.. and then changes.  Maybe it chooses a level during the initial 10 day period, then sticks with it for a good month to gather data, then when it has enough data makes more changes. Though I know other people have had other experiences!  


Yes, from what people have reported here that seems to be the way it works. For me, my initial period ended on DLM1 on July 23rd. Despite really high CRC error rates I stayed on DLM1 until August 27th when I went to DLM2. On Sept 28th it went back to DLM1. You seemed to be stuck on DLM3 from August 10th until Sept 18th when DLM started a rapid series of changes. SamF was on DLM2 from July 30 until August 21 and then again from August 25 until Sept 25 when DLM made 3 changes in 4 days.


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  Reply # 701065 14-Oct-2012 18:13 Send private message quote this post

SamF: I have had regular weekly resyncs before. It does depend on whether there is anything to resync for however; if DLM doesn't think there is any benefit to changing profiles it won't resync.

When did you have weekly resyncs, was it before this thread? The resyncs you've reported here are:
July 30
August 21
August 24
September 25
September 27
September 28
October 11

So rapid changes a few days apart or gaps of at least 2, 3, or 4 weeks. The pattern seems similar for me and sidefx too.

Also, the official docs say that DLM profile changes are weekly.

That doc seems to say a lot of things that don't actually line up with what we're seeing. It also says that DLM can switch between the 8b and 17a profiles, right?

132 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 701090 14-Oct-2012 19:10 Send private message quote this post

When you guys mention resync, you mean a DSL resync right?

Because - the default setting on the fritz is to force a resync between 3 - 4 each morning anyway? I've left that setting on - and in the logs I see the resync happen each morning irrespective of any DLM change.

Does that setting even need to be on? Can I happily turn it off?



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  Reply # 701093 14-Oct-2012 19:18 Send private message quote this post

Yes, DSL resync, what other kind is there? :)

DLM is set to resync from 4:10am to 6:30am. I'm not sure what happens if you set the fritz to suppress resyncs until after this time period. I have it off on mine and DLM works fine.

378 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 701094 14-Oct-2012 19:28 Send private message quote this post

Cadriel: When you guys mention resync, you mean a DSL resync right?

Because - the default setting on the fritz is to force a resync between 3 - 4 each morning anyway? I've left that setting on - and in the logs I see the resync happen each morning irrespective of any DLM change.

Does that setting even need to be on? Can I happily turn it off?

Yeah, turn it off. I've had it off since day 2. I think it's intend for use with ISPs that force resync periodically. But scheduling the resync you can avoid it happening at an inconvenient time. But that doesn't apply in NZ.

As SamF said, DLM resyncs happen between 4 and 6am. In practice they seem to happen pretty much right on 4:10am.

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  Reply # 701103 14-Oct-2012 19:57 Send private message quote this post

stevehodge: 
Yeah, turn it off. I've had it off since day 2. I think it's intend for use with ISPs that force resync periodically. But scheduling the resync you can avoid it happening at an inconvenient time. But that doesn't apply in NZ.



Aye, definitely turn this off; I also had it turned on out of the box, but confirmed with snap that it should be off.

100 posts

Master Geek
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  Reply # 702071 16-Oct-2012 14:12 Send private message quote this post

So everything had been sweet since the I put the splitter. I called Snap and got them to reset my DLM yesterday, modem came up on a new DLM and speeds were still good, until 11am today the modem dropped DSL and would not resync on its own. I restarted the modem 4 times over the period of an hour and it would not resync.

Modem resynced about 10 minutes ago and has had a huge speed drop again! Man this is frustrating.
Down to 41mbit down and 6mbit up. My upstream obtainable yesterday was 12mbit up and it was synced at 10.
I am also watching the SNR going back to its old tricks of slowly dropping. 10 minutes ago it was at 13db and it has dropped down to 10db. My guess is it will keep going until I get another disconnect.

Called Snap and have been told to check my wiring, Durp. As if I havent already done that. Also the dude tells me that they can send Chorus but if they dont find a fault then Im up for $180 plus if they dont like the splitter I put in they will charge me the $400 to put their own one in. What a f**cking joke. Very tempted to go back to ADSL. I have spent hours trying to sort this out. Imagine if I was just an average home user with no technical knowledge! Not to mention I rely on a VOIP line for business that is going up and down every single day.

1876 posts

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  Reply # 702227 16-Oct-2012 20:02 Send private message quote this post

So on a whim this morning I decided to turn my SNRM back to 13; now last time I did this my errors skyrocketed from 0.06 up to 2-3. But this time all looks fine... it's been on 13 all day and CRCPM is steady at 0.07.

One thing I wonder is maybe resyncing at "quiet" times of day (from a DSL traffic perspective) is better? In the past I always tweak these things either in the evening or on the weekend - both probably peak DSL times.

Tomorrow I might try set it back to 12 and see.


@varix: Damn that sucks man :( Have you tried just connecting a cable direct to the incoming pair and straight to the modem? (bypassing the filter and all other internal wiring?)

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  Reply # 702332 17-Oct-2012 09:33 Send private message quote this post

Overnight the CRCPM rate went up to 0.17, so it does seem to have made a difference. Still no-where near the difference it made when I last tried it. So I decided to bump it back to Target SNRM = 12 (max performance in the Fritzbox line settings)  This has bumped up the sync rate from around 33.5 (SNRM=14) to ~36 (SNRM=12) and on speedtest I guess I've gained maybe 2 mbps. TBH not really worth much if the error rate goes up more, but I'll see.

So far so good, CRCPM is at 0.05 though I suspect that will go up during the day and quite a bit tonight. I'll see though...

378 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 702585 17-Oct-2012 16:14 Send private message quote this post

Since I put my SNRM target up a couple of db, my error rate seems to be slowly increasing. I set the SNRM to 14db on the 8th, after doing that I was then getting 0.14 CRC/min and 7 FEC/min. After a couple of days CRC/min was up to about 0.2. Now I seeing 0.31 CRC/min and 17 FEC/min. Anyone else seen a gradual increase like this?

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Master Geek
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  Reply # 703091 18-Oct-2012 17:11 Send private message quote this post

Ok so a few updates. Internet seems to be dropping off at around 11am most mornings, I watched it this morning and the SnR margin dropped down to 2db and then slowly came back up. Had a sync speed all day of 32mbit down and 2mbit up. Resynced a few times and it kept picking up the same speed. Seems to be something causing this margin to drop down, sometimes to 0db which is when the modem disconnects.

Chorus were booked to come check my line today. I saw the Chorus van show up at the cabinet outside and watched him open it up. Like clockwork the DSL went down, good to mention at this point my sync was still 32mbit down and 2mbit up. Sync came back up 3 minutes later at full speed, 44mbit down and 10mbit up. Yay I was thinking, he must have fixed something.

Knocks on the door 3 minutes later and wants to test my line, I show him where the modem is and he unplugs it and plugs it back in, picks up a full speed sync again. He gets his fancy test kit out and runs a test on the line, it picks up full 44mbit down and 10mbit up. Great, he says everything is fine and there is nothing else he can do. As far as he is concerned the line is perfect, nothing that I tell him about the frequent disconnects and slow speeds matters. SO, I am left at the moment with a full speed sync, of which he did nothing apart from unpair and repair my line in the cabinet. He said the only thing left to test is the modem, of which Snap have none left. I guess I am to expect a $170 no fault found fee and have my modem drop off tomorrow again at 11am tomorrow to start the circle again.

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  Reply # 703096 18-Oct-2012 17:33 Send private message quote this post

I just moved house and got my VDSL moved too, was nice to go from a sync rate of 25/10 to 49/8.

When I first setup at my new place I was getting 20ms to my first hop, however I see DLM has taken objection to my somewhat 'low' upload speed and kicked me down a profile...

I'm now getting a sync rate of 54/9 which is nice and all, however 28ms to my first hop is higher than the 20ms I was getting at first, and a LOT higher than then 4ms at my old house.

I'm going to stop playing around with my modem/router for a bit in hope that it'll stabilise and get my latency down.

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