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191 posts

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Topic # 112969 30-Dec-2012 11:59 Send private message

I am seeing over and over so called technology experts writing about how VDSL is so much more expensive and its $20 more because Chorus just want to make lots of money.  If you look at Snap's pricing as it is the only reasonably priced ISP offering VDSL it is $25 more but their pricing is already pretty sharp anyway so compared to Telecoms offering for example its pretty much the same except you get 3 X downloads and 10 X upload so I think Chorus and the ISP is well within their rights to charge $25 more a month.  Its not like going to ADSL2 from ADSL as that was only a small bump in technology and inline with technology getting better over time.  VDSL may share some common traits but is far and above a better technology and we could have half of the connections in NZ on 100Mb tomorrow if the latest VDSL technology was used.  Why did Telecom bother to invest in VDSL line cards in the first place if only a fraction of the connections who could use it tomorrow don't?  Then you have the head of TUANZ offering up this garbage.

"Except there are very few VDSL sellers out there and worse, the data caps are so incredibly low. It would cost hundreds of dollars a month more to connect to a VDSL port, for no apparent reason".

Paul knows his stuff why is writing such false statements?  UFB speeds are here today on copper we should be using it as its going to be here for a while yet.

Its time to get more publicity about the technology and not let false claims about its cost over ADSL stop people from adopting it as Chorus and ISPs will invest if the demand is there.

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  Reply # 738559 30-Dec-2012 12:11 Send private message

It takes more than a basic line card to offer VDSL what about the core network on the ISP side?






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  Reply # 738560 30-Dec-2012 12:16 Send private message

johnr: It takes more than a basic line card to offer VDSL what about the core network on the ISP side?


Yes hence the premium over standard ADSL this is my point people are saying they are not prepared to pay for the service and its not worth it.  I want people to understand that the $25 is worth it and it can't be the same cost as ADSL.

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  Reply # 738561 30-Dec-2012 12:19 Send private message

and to get the full benefit of VDSL you almost have to have the cabinet on your front lawn, so that rules out at least 70-80% of the user base.

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  Reply # 738563 30-Dec-2012 12:23 Send private message

johnr: It takes more than a basic line card to offer VDSL what about the core network on the ISP side?


It may take more bandwidth but from a technical perspective it's no different to any other EUBA ADSL2+ connection - it's presented at the same handover using the identical QinQ tagging.

There are over 20 providers now provising VDSL2 connections, it really is a great product. Whether or not it's mass market product however is another question entirely. A master xDSL filter or dedicated jackpoint isn't a nice to have for VDSL2, it's absolutely essential. This limits uptake in the mass market because your average NZer expects everthing for free and isn't willing to pay for an install.



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  Reply # 738564 30-Dec-2012 12:23 Send private message

vexxxboy: and to get the full benefit of VDSL you almost have to have the cabinet on your front lawn, so that rules out at least 70-80% of the user base.


Not so atleast a good comment on Pauls article.

Over on Computerworld, a comment from Malcolm Dick (he of CallPlus/Slingshot fame) caught my eye. Malcolm points to a recent announcement regarding VDSL 2+ with vectoring:
“which gives download speeds of 100[Mbit/s] and upload speeds of 40[Mbit/s] on copper runs of 400metres long - I would guess that covers around 800,000 households in New Zealand.”




ajw

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  Reply # 738565 30-Dec-2012 12:29 Send private message

I think the price is dearer for VDSL2 because chorus is able to charge a extra $20 wholesale per month for a VDSL2 enabled copper line.

This  wholesale pricing was set by the Commerce Commission a while ago. Please correct me if wrong.

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  Reply # 738566 30-Dec-2012 12:30 Send private message

vexxxboy: and to get the full benefit of VDSL you almost have to have the cabinet on your front lawn, so that rules out at least 70-80% of the user base.


It doesn't actually. Overall around 50% of premises are capable of getting VDSL2. If you're fed from a cabinet the figure is around 75%.

If you're in a cabinetised area around 80% of MPF's have a loop distance of 1km or less, with ~800m being the maximum reach of VDSL2+ if you want acceptable performance. Greater than this and you'll get better downstream with ADSL2+, but will still get better upstream than ADSL2+.

If you're fed from an exchange then the number varies comsiderably depending on where you are. In metropolitan areas exchange coverage areas typically cover the first 1 - 2 km radius from the exchange before cabinets take over, and then cover outlying areas beyond the cabinet footprint.

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  Reply # 738567 30-Dec-2012 12:31 Send private message

ajw: I think the price is dearer for VDSL2 because chorus is able to charge a extra $20 wholesale per month for a VDSL2 enabled copper line.

This  wholesale pricing was set by the Commerce Commission a while ago. Please correct me if wrong.


Correct on price, but incorrect on the ComCom aspect.

VDSL2 is not a regulated product, it's a commercial offering.

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  Reply # 738568 30-Dec-2012 12:32 Send private message

i have tried VDSL and i did the master filter thing, and after everything i could only get slightly more speed than ADSL2 and the only way i could get better speed was move my house 500 metres closer to the cabinet, so im back on ADSL2 through no fault of mine .



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  Reply # 738570 30-Dec-2012 12:37 Send private message

vexxxboy: i have tried VDSL and i did the master filter thing, and after everything i could only get slightly more speed than ADSL2 and the only way i could get better speed was move my house 500 metres closer to the cabinet, so im back on ADSL2 through no fault of mine .


Thats a shame but as Steve points out there is still over 50% of connections that can get VDSL at good speeds and I bet less than 1% of these use it.


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  Reply # 738575 30-Dec-2012 12:59 Send private message

It's also worth remembering that download speed is't the only key feature of VDSL2 - IMHO the most significant is upstream, and it opens up an entirely new world of possibility when you've got upstream speeds 10x faster than ADSL2+

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  Reply # 738580 30-Dec-2012 13:32 Send private message

sbiddle:IMHO the most significant is upstream, and it opens up an entirely new world of possibility when you've got upstream speeds 10x faster than ADSL2+


Hell yes!

I would have many less external HDD's if I had access to 10Mbps upstream. And wouldn't bother taking an external away on a trip with movies etc as there would be bandwidth to stream. 

Next house I buy will be in a VDSL or UFB area. Bandwidth is everything!!



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  Reply # 738599 30-Dec-2012 15:22 Send private message

Just to add a little more info on what the VDSL2 is capable of with vectoring on eliminating the noise from other lines I found this.


So could get 100Mb and over 50% of the country could get 40mb.

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  Reply # 738607 30-Dec-2012 16:13 Send private message

vexxxboy: i have tried VDSL and i did the master filter thing, and after everything i could only get slightly more speed than ADSL2 and the only way i could get better speed was move my house 500 metres closer to the cabinet, so im back on ADSL2 through no fault of mine .


stink, did you still have to pay for the install?

ajw

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 738610 30-Dec-2012 16:20 Send private message

fellaintga: Just to add a little more info on what the VDSL2 is capable of with vectoring on eliminating the noise from other lines I found this.


So could get 100Mb and over 50% of the country could get 40mb.



Interesting to see what is happening with VDSL2 in Germany.

http://fastnetnews.com/dslprime/42-d/4882-dt-at-least-14m-possibly-30m-vectored-lines

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