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Topic # 101361 30-Apr-2012 12:13 Send private message

TUANZ had sent their submission to MED regarding copyright fee and posted in their blog.




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  Reply # 617473 30-Apr-2012 15:05 Send private message

To quote Paul:


Since the film and television industries don’t seem to value their product at any more than $25 per item (presumably they see the cost of issuing a notice as being more than the value of the product they are protecting)...


Impeccable logic.

And also quite telling:


TUANZ also notes that despite the rhetoric (5) prior to the introduction of the new regime, not a single New Zealand artist’s content has been the subject of a notice. Either New Zealand content is not being ‘pirated’ or the rights holders have no interest in pursuing those who breach copyright regulations regarding locally-produced content.


Well done, TUANZ!




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  Reply # 617480 30-Apr-2012 15:24 Send private message

SaltyNZ: To quote Paul:


Since the film and television industries don’t seem to value their product at any more than $25 per item (presumably they see the cost of issuing a notice as being more than the value of the product they are protecting)...


Impeccable logic.




I assume you are being sarcastic here, since it is terrible logic.



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  Reply # 617487 30-Apr-2012 15:48 Send private message

NonprayingMantis: 
I assume you are being sarcastic here, since it is terrible logic.


It isn't terrible logic at all. It's simple profit and loss. If it cost $10,000 a year to insure my $5,000 car then I wouldn't do it, would I? I do it because insurance is far cheaper than my car is worth to replace.

These people run businesses; they do (and only do) what makes a profit. If a single infringing download is guaranteed to cost you* the $29.95 of the content in question then it makes sense to spend $25, once, to stop it from happening again.** 

This argument is even more compelling when you consider that the content industry insists that downloading costs them millions - per infringer. (Jammie Thomas, etc.) If that really is true, then surely $25 is a miniscule price to save millions, isn't it?

The only reason not to pay is if the content isn't actually worth $25 -- let alone $X million -- in the first place.

* But of course it isn't, always.
** And of course it won't, necessarily.




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  Reply # 617504 30-Apr-2012 16:28 Send private message

SaltyNZ:
NonprayingMantis: 
I assume you are being sarcastic here, since it is terrible logic.


It isn't terrible logic at all. It's simple profit and loss. If it cost $10,000 a year to insure my $5,000 car then I wouldn't do it, would I? I do it because insurance is far cheaper than my car is worth to replace.

ever heard of third party insurance?  I know several people in the UK who's annual insurance premium is more than the value of their crummy 1990 fiesta car because they have to insure against the possibility of smashing into a porsche



These people run businesses; they do (and only do) what makes a profit. If a single infringing download is guaranteed to cost you* the $29.95 of the content in question then it makes sense to spend $25, once, to stop it from happening again.** 

This argument is even more compelling when you consider that the content industry insists that downloading costs them millions - per infringer. (Jammie Thomas, etc.) If that really is true, then surely $25 is a miniscule price to save millions, isn't it?

The only reason not to pay is if the content isn't actually worth $25 -- let alone $X million -- in the first place.

* But of course it isn't, always.
** And of course it won't, necessarily.



one notice does not equal one fewer peice of content downloaded*

Here is why:

A single notice may be worth less than a single piece of content since the rights holder will need to send out hundreds of such notices at $25/notice before it gets it’s first ‘third strike’ – which is when actual punishment happens. Every other notice up to that point has no impact to the customer.  So from that point of view it could be argued that in order to stop the future download of something, a rights holder will need to spend thousands of dollars up front. So if the content was worth $30, then each individual notice that wnet into stopping that download may be only worth a few cents
 

On the other hand, the first third strike notice, properly publicised, may stop dozens or hundreds of people from downloading  GBs and GBs  of content,  so from that point of view a single third strike maybe worth tens of thousands or more in future earnings.

These two things push the value of the notice in differnet ways, and I make no claim as to which is the bigger, or how much they move by.

Taking those both together, we really have no idea what the value of a single infringement might be to the rights holders.  It might be $2c, it might be $100 
One thing we do know is that it bears almost no relation to the price of a piece of content.  So trying to compare it to the price of a piece of content is very poor logic.

*I note that Paul has spoken out against this kind of shakey logic used by rights holders before  where one download = one lost sale.  Well if he wants to take the moral high ground he should avoid using the same sort of poor arguments himself.

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  Reply # 617512 30-Apr-2012 16:43 Send private message

NonprayingMantis:
Taking those both together, we really have no idea what the value of a single infringement might be to the rights holders.  It might be $2c, it might be $100 
One thing we do know is that it bears almost no relation to the price of a piece of content.  So trying to compare it to the price of a piece of content is very poor logic.



You are correct, it is very poor logic however this poor logic is the standard used by such rights holders, The same rights holders who are doing their very best to have it written into law.

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  Reply # 617517 30-Apr-2012 16:49 Send private message

Goodie another copyright infringement discussion.

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  Reply # 617519 30-Apr-2012 16:57 Send private message

lucky015:
NonprayingMantis:
Taking those both together, we really have no idea what the value of a single infringement might be to the rights holders.  It might be $2c, it might be $100 
One thing we do know is that it bears almost no relation to the price of a piece of content.  So trying to compare it to the price of a piece of content is very poor logic.



You are correct, it is very poor logic however this poor logic is the standard used by such rights holders, The same rights holders who are doing their very best to have it written into law.


and that is exaclty why Paul should refrain from using that logic if he wants to complain about rights holders using it.

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  Reply # 617547 30-Apr-2012 18:03 Send private message

Well, merely stating the FACTS didn't help. Unfortunately this isn't Toastmasters, and you get no points for being right. Perhaps it IS time to use their own poor logic against them.

Or to put it another way, how old YOU propose to do it?




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