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Lab



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Topic # 106684 29-Jul-2012 18:53 Send private message

First of all, I'm new to the forums so forgive me if I posted this in the wrong section, I browsed the forum and I think this is the write sub-forum for my question.

I've always used YT Downloaders for music but recently I got an iPod and realising that downloading from YT meant that the mp3 tags weren't filled out I started using Groovedown, a downloader for music on the site Grooveshark. Needless to say, I only do this because the mp3 tags are already filled out.
Now I was wondering if this method of obtaining music is legal under the 3strikes law and if done, will I get a notice?
I was thinking that it would be legal because Groovedown follows the same concept as YT downloaders where it downloads content from a site. As far as my limited knowledge goes, I also don't think that Groovedown is a p2p sharing software or w/e, so it also would not be illegal under the 3strikes law?

Just a few questions I would love to get clarified, I've tried contacting my ISP and a few people from Internet NZ, but alas, no replies.

Thanks guys and sorry if topics like these aren't allowed.

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  Reply # 663701 29-Jul-2012 19:16 Send private message

There is nothing illegal with P2P. Three Strikes law does not punish those using P2P

Did you pay for the music you downloaded?

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  Reply # 663702 29-Jul-2012 19:18 Send private message

Lab: First of all, I'm new to the forums so forgive me if I posted this in the wrong section, I browsed the forum and I think this is the write sub-forum for my question.

I've always used YT Downloaders for music but recently I got an iPod and realising that downloading from YT meant that the mp3 tags weren't filled out I started using Groovedown, a downloader for music on the site Grooveshark. Needless to say, I only do this because the mp3 tags are already filled out.
Now I was wondering if this method of obtaining music is legal under the 3strikes law and if done, will I get a notice?
I was thinking that it would be legal because Groovedown follows the same concept as YT downloaders where it downloads content from a site. As far as my limited knowledge goes, I also don't think that Groovedown is a p2p sharing software or w/e, so it also would not be illegal under the 3strikes law?

Just a few questions I would love to get clarified, I've tried contacting my ISP and a few people from Internet NZ, but alas, no replies.

Thanks guys and sorry if topics like these aren't allowed.


As far as I know. they are only monitoring torrents. 

If you're grabbing mp3 tracks from the streaming YouTube video....then you have nothing to fear as the people doing the monitoring can't tell if you're watching the video or just ripping the audio. It all looks the same to the network because the audio extraction is happening on your PC....not at the source.

As for Groovedown.....(quick Google!!!!) .the same probably applies. You'll be grabbing the tune at your end...after Grooveshark presumably legally streams it to you.




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Lab



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  Reply # 663705 29-Jul-2012 19:26 Send private message

tdgeek: There is nothing illegal with P2P. Three Strikes law does not punish those using P2P

Did you pay for the music you downloaded?

Thanks for the quick reply but I thought the 3strikes law was manly about punishing those using p2p software and torrents?
Pardon me as I don't really know much about p2p and torrents at all.

No I didn't pay for it.

Linuxluver:
Lab: First of all, I'm new to the forums so forgive me if I posted this in the wrong section, I browsed the forum and I think this is the write sub-forum for my question.

I've always used YT Downloaders for music but recently I got an iPod and realising that downloading from YT meant that the mp3 tags weren't filled out I started using Groovedown, a downloader for music on the site Grooveshark. Needless to say, I only do this because the mp3 tags are already filled out.
Now I was wondering if this method of obtaining music is legal under the 3strikes law and if done, will I get a notice?
I was thinking that it would be legal because Groovedown follows the same concept as YT downloaders where it downloads content from a site. As far as my limited knowledge goes, I also don't think that Groovedown is a p2p sharing software or w/e, so it also would not be illegal under the 3strikes law?

Just a few questions I would love to get clarified, I've tried contacting my ISP and a few people from Internet NZ, but alas, no replies.

Thanks guys and sorry if topics like these aren't allowed.


As far as I know. they are only monitoring torrents. 

If you're grabbing mp3 tracks from the streaming YouTube video....then you have nothing to fear as the people doing the monitoring can't tell if you're watching the video or just ripping the audio. It all looks the same to the network because the audio extraction is happening on your PC....not at the source.

As for Groovedown.....(quick Google!!!!) .the same probably applies. You'll be grabbing the tune at your end...after Grooveshark presumably legally streams it to you.

Again, thanks for the quick reply.
So there is nothing illegal about using YT converter/downloaders or Groovedown under the 3strikes law as far as you can tell?

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  Reply # 663707 29-Jul-2012 19:31 Send private message

If your not paying for it, then my money is on it being technically illegal. Whether anyone would care or much less notice is another matter.





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Lab



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  Reply # 663711 29-Jul-2012 19:36 Send private message

scuwp: If your not paying for it, then my money is on it being technically illegal. Whether anyone would care or much less notice is another matter.


I know it's technically illegal but I'm more concerned about it triggering a 3srikes notice?

I know that sounds pretty d*ckish of me xD

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  Reply # 663738 29-Jul-2012 20:44 Send private message

Lab: So there is nothing illegal about using YT converter/downloaders or Groovedown under the 3strikes law as far as you can tell?


Read the YouTube and Grooveshark terms and conditions. If they prohibit what you're doing because it's illegal under the law they operate under - usually US law generally, plus whatever law applies in the US state they operate from - then it's illegal....there.

Less clear is what the position would be in NZ as the violation of terms and conditions in another jurisdiction exposes you there.....but that may not mean what you're doing is illegal here...(strictly speaking)....as we do allow format shifting in paid content...and presumably you're paying for access - or have legal access of some kind - via Grooveshark. YouTube is less clear.  

Note the use of the word "may".

It's an interesting question as to whether violating the Ts & Cs of a company based in California by format-shifting content streamed to your PC in NZ is illegal HERE.  

I am not a lawyer.  




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  Reply # 663759 29-Jul-2012 21:45 Send private message

Lab:
scuwp: If your not paying for it, then my money is on it being technically illegal. Whether anyone would care or much less notice is another matter.


I know it's technically illegal but I'm more concerned about it triggering a 3srikes notice?

I know that sounds pretty d*ckish of me xD


Copyright law makes it illegal for you to download any content that you don't have rights of - this means downloading music, movies from anywhere that is not a legal distributor - this means torrent files, file sharing sites, etc.

The only thing here is that because of technical solutions some rights holders are currently monitoring P2P only - that doesn't mean any other mean is legal. 

If you haven't paid for the content, and it's not offered for free from the rights holder, it's illegal.

And yes, it's being a dick about it.





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  Reply # 663772 29-Jul-2012 22:13 Send private message

Analogy:

My friend has shown me how to fill up my car at the local petrol station and drive away without having to pay for it, and there is little chance it will be noticed if I do this.

Is it illegal?






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  Reply # 663777 29-Jul-2012 22:33 Send private message

Lab: Just a few questions I would love to get clarified, I've tried contacting my ISP and a few people from Internet NZ, but alas, no replies.


I will simplify this for you.

1. Is this method illegal?

Yes

2. Will you be caught under the 3 strikes law?

No (at this point of time, the answer is NO)


You can always wait until you get the first notice... then stop!
 





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  Reply # 663792 30-Jul-2012 01:25 Send private message

If that's an iPod Touch, just get a Spotify subscription. You can legally sync as many tracks as you want to your iPod via the Spotify app and listen to them as much as you want in offline mode.

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  Reply # 663810 30-Jul-2012 08:39 Send private message

As above, here are some suggestions for legal music downloads and streaming:

7Digital
FlyBuys Music
iTunes
Marbecks Digital
Pandora
Rdio
Spotify
Telecom Android Music
Vodafone Music

And no, those Russian sites that allow you to "buy" music at very cheap rates are not legal, and most likely will steal your credit card details.








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  Reply # 663831 30-Jul-2012 09:32 Send private message

scuwp: Analogy:

My friend has shown me how to fill up my car at the local petrol station and drive away without having to pay for it, and there is little chance it will be noticed if I do this.

Is it illegal?




Sorry I can't resist; very flawed analogy...   How about:

My friend has shown me how to replicate the petrol from his car so I get free petrol from him without affecting his petrol.  Is it illegal?   :P


(PS: no I don't condone piracy, but this is a far more complex argument than that simplistic analogy makes out)

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  Reply # 663838 30-Jul-2012 09:47 Send private message

sidefx: 
Sorry I can't resist; very flawed analogy...   How about:

My friend has shown me how to replicate the petrol from his car so I get free petrol from him without affecting his petrol.  Is it illegal?   :P


(PS: no I don't condone piracy, but this is a far more complex argument than that simplistic analogy makes out)


A more accurate analogy is "my friend has shown me how to copy money so that the copy looks exactly like the original.  Is it illegal?"

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  Reply # 663843 30-Jul-2012 09:59 Send private message

(Sorry I forgot the [troll] tags in my previous post ;-) )

Kyanar: 
A more accurate analogy is "my friend has shown me how to copy money so that the copy looks exactly like the original.  Is it illegal?"


Closer perhaps, though despite what "the studios" would have us believe,  I think you'd have trouble arguing that copying mp3s has the same negative effects as counterfeiting money (currency devaluation, increased inflation, organized crime, etc)

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  Reply # 663956 30-Jul-2012 13:20 Send private message

Back on topic... I have posted a list of legal music services in New Zealand.

Some are free, some paid, there is even the FlyBuys service that allows you to use your points to get music.





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