Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.

View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5
2475 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 533

Subscriber

  Reply # 934205 15-Nov-2013 09:33 One person supports this post Send private message

radicall:
JimmyH:
radicall:
k1wi:
radicall: It disgusts me that we have no say in these important issues, Democracy is a corrupt system and a con. 

I am sure Key will be cowtailing to the 1% who no doubt have had influence in putting this plan together as part of the NWO agenda.

We are slowly being led the slaughter of our freedom.
We have 'no say' because we are a representative democracy, whereby we choose people to represent ourselves on our behalf.  There is nothing new about that - if anything we are much more open than in previous years (for example the budget process is much more open, with relatively few 'secrets' on budget day).

Any agreement will still need to be passed through the New Zealand parliament (and the respective legislatures of the other countries).


Yes my comments are more suited for the conspiracy forums, but I don't see democracy as the right representation of the peoples choice, even if the 100% voted 51% in my opinion does not make a decision correct or best for all.

Back to the 1% and here we go,

Just look at the attitude of the Government towards the referendum on Asset Sales, they dont give a hoot for what the people think. 1% Corporate agendas win.



What?

I'm not sure what you mean by "cowtailing", unless you think that the Dairy Industry has undue lobbying power in the negotiations, but your post seems a but oddball.

1.  The material linked to makes it pretty clear that the NZ government is strongly opposing (not supporting) what you claim they are driving through.

2.  There is no way the NZ Government could start unilaterally releasing drafts of discussions that the other parties they are negotiating with don't want released. No one one would negotiate with NZ on pretty much anything if we started doing that.

3.  I don't see how random references to "the 1%" (whoever you mean by that) have anything whatsoever to do with this? Unless you think that trade is bad and the general public would be better off if NZ went with Autarky and emulated the North Korean economic miracle? (in which case you would be in a very, very small minority).

4.  Asset sales are essentially irrelevant to this discussion. And, in any event, I think there is at least a case to say that it was clearly in their election manifesto, they campaigned on it and it was widely debated, and they were elected. That's not exactly ignoring the electorate?

5.  References to John Key being a key catspaw of "the 1%" in conspiring  to create the the New World Order aren't exactly helping your credibility here. Plus, in your haste to post, you forgot to link him to the Freemasons, the Illuminati, and the Reptillians.



Hey Jimmy,

Thanks for point out I might have started my commenting here from a particular obtuse perspective, so let me explain it a bit better.

For your information and if you were not able to look it up "cowtailing" means following others to propose a bit like cows follow each other nose to tail. There you go who would have known.

1. Thanks for emphasising "not important" as the meaning of "strongly opposing" but that is not the point of my conclusive opening statement. 

2. Clearly the motivation as to why the US would not want information released is not a issue for you, you accept that something that affects the major part of our industries we don't need to know about, leave it to your trusting Government. 

3. There was no random reference it was specific to the agenda of Globalism and the direction that the 1% want to take the World. I point again to the fact that Democracy is not a true representation of what the People want, it is corrupt and a puppet of the 1% who know how to manipulate the People through media and other forms yet nothing changes from their agenda. The internet has suppressed their agenda somewhat it is why they are desperately trying everything to bring it under some sort of control.

Noting against trade agreements but I am against monopolistic corporations using trade agreement to suppress what once is free for the sake of their greed.

4. Asset sales go toward the attitude of a democratically elected Government and that the Peoples voice does not matter, the election was not a election represented buy all people and is corrupt, any mandate is a false undertaking. A government for the people should see the issue for what it is and allow the referendum to decide the future of Asset Sales.

5. I see you like the word "catspaw" as opposed to cowtail, you really need to open your eyes a bit to the World events, so you consider the Government Communications Security Bureau bill to be the sole work of Key do you, one obvious example of cowtailing to his US friends. I am also assure of your wisdom by the fact that you consider it reasonable to judge someone's credibility based on 2-3 posts, that certainly shows good judgement of character and subject.

As far as  Freemasons, the Illuminati, and the Reptilians, I don't discount anything, if the world revolves around you there is probably nothing to it, I suspect there is something to it, what, I can not address conclusively.





I find your response hard to follow for points1-3 , point 4 seems to be just a political rant and seems irrelevant to this discussion.
likewise point 5 seems more anti John Key soap boxing and your point that you were judged on "2-3 posts" came from where exactly as the poster never said that at all.


In my opinion you are just using this topic to put your views on other bigger "issues" that you are obviously passionate about but has no relevance,  that I can see, to this thread. 

As previously suggested it may be best for you to start your own thread as I'm sure it will generate some interest





Galaxy S5 G900F
Samsung (custom)  KITKAT 4.4.2 

Galaxy Gear 2  Smart watch (great gadget )





765 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 173


  Reply # 934245 15-Nov-2013 10:18 One person supports this post Send private message

Hopefully the TPP is dead in the water.
The leaked draft from Wikipedia shows the US position. Even after "horse trading" then a concession that you get to choose to be dunked head first or feet first when you'd going to be boiled in oil isn't something to be happy about.
Obama looks like losing the ability to "fast track" TPP. If he loses that, then the US don't have anything on offer to the other partners - as anything agreed to in negotiations can be debated and changed before it's signed in to US law.
New FTAs are overwhelmingly unpopular in the US, strongly opposed by 3/4 people.

It's a shame Wikileaks hasn't got drafts for negotiations on trade (ie agricultural products etc). The US will neither drop subsidies, nor allow free access to NZ. At best, all that will be on offer is "freer" trade than we have now.

If it progresses, there will be lobbying for the TPP from NZ groups who would profit from it, drug companies, corporate copyright holders, some retailers, possibly some farmers (if the US actually does concede anything significant).

27 posts

Geek
+1 received by user: 2

Trusted
Radicall

  Reply # 934255 15-Nov-2013 10:27 Send private message

jeffnz:
radicall:
JimmyH:
radicall:
k1wi:
radicall: It disgusts me that we have no say in these important issues, Democracy is a corrupt system and a con. 

I am sure Key will be cowtailing to the 1% who no doubt have had influence in putting this plan together as part of the NWO agenda.

We are slowly being led the slaughter of our freedom.
We have 'no say' because we are a representative democracy, whereby we choose people to represent ourselves on our behalf.  There is nothing new about that - if anything we are much more open than in previous years (for example the budget process is much more open, with relatively few 'secrets' on budget day).

Any agreement will still need to be passed through the New Zealand parliament (and the respective legislatures of the other countries).


Yes my comments are more suited for the conspiracy forums, but I don't see democracy as the right representation of the peoples choice, even if the 100% voted 51% in my opinion does not make a decision correct or best for all.

Back to the 1% and here we go,

Just look at the attitude of the Government towards the referendum on Asset Sales, they dont give a hoot for what the people think. 1% Corporate agendas win.



What?

I'm not sure what you mean by "cowtailing", unless you think that the Dairy Industry has undue lobbying power in the negotiations, but your post seems a but oddball.

1.  The material linked to makes it pretty clear that the NZ government is strongly opposing (not supporting) what you claim they are driving through.

2.  There is no way the NZ Government could start unilaterally releasing drafts of discussions that the other parties they are negotiating with don't want released. No one one would negotiate with NZ on pretty much anything if we started doing that.

3.  I don't see how random references to "the 1%" (whoever you mean by that) have anything whatsoever to do with this? Unless you think that trade is bad and the general public would be better off if NZ went with Autarky and emulated the North Korean economic miracle? (in which case you would be in a very, very small minority).

4.  Asset sales are essentially irrelevant to this discussion. And, in any event, I think there is at least a case to say that it was clearly in their election manifesto, they campaigned on it and it was widely debated, and they were elected. That's not exactly ignoring the electorate?

5.  References to John Key being a key catspaw of "the 1%" in conspiring  to create the the New World Order aren't exactly helping your credibility here. Plus, in your haste to post, you forgot to link him to the Freemasons, the Illuminati, and the Reptillians.



Hey Jimmy,

Thanks for point out I might have started my commenting here from a particular obtuse perspective, so let me explain it a bit better.

For your information and if you were not able to look it up "cowtailing" means following others to propose a bit like cows follow each other nose to tail. There you go who would have known.

1. Thanks for emphasising "not important" as the meaning of "strongly opposing" but that is not the point of my conclusive opening statement. 

2. Clearly the motivation as to why the US would not want information released is not a issue for you, you accept that something that affects the major part of our industries we don't need to know about, leave it to your trusting Government. 

3. There was no random reference it was specific to the agenda of Globalism and the direction that the 1% want to take the World. I point again to the fact that Democracy is not a true representation of what the People want, it is corrupt and a puppet of the 1% who know how to manipulate the People through media and other forms yet nothing changes from their agenda. The internet has suppressed their agenda somewhat it is why they are desperately trying everything to bring it under some sort of control.

Noting against trade agreements but I am against monopolistic corporations using trade agreement to suppress what once is free for the sake of their greed.

4. Asset sales go toward the attitude of a democratically elected Government and that the Peoples voice does not matter, the election was not a election represented buy all people and is corrupt, any mandate is a false undertaking. A government for the people should see the issue for what it is and allow the referendum to decide the future of Asset Sales.

5. I see you like the word "catspaw" as opposed to cowtail, you really need to open your eyes a bit to the World events, so you consider the Government Communications Security Bureau bill to be the sole work of Key do you, one obvious example of cowtailing to his US friends. I am also assure of your wisdom by the fact that you consider it reasonable to judge someone's credibility based on 2-3 posts, that certainly shows good judgement of character and subject.

As far as  Freemasons, the Illuminati, and the Reptilians, I don't discount anything, if the world revolves around you there is probably nothing to it, I suspect there is something to it, what, I can not address conclusively.





I find your response hard to follow for points1-3 , point 4 seems to be just a political rant and seems irrelevant to this discussion.
likewise point 5 seems more anti John Key soap boxing and your point that you were judged on "2-3 posts" came from where exactly as the poster never said that at all.


In my opinion you are just using this topic to put your views on other bigger "issues" that you are obviously passionate about but has no relevance,  that I can see, to this thread. 

As previously suggested it may be best for you to start your own thread as I'm sure it will generate some interest

As i said I made a conclusive statement on this TPP topic that involves and is part of a bigger issue, are the two mutually exclusive or part of one another. I expected no further discussion, on may part its a statement, if others wish to challenge it than I must do my duty and respond.

Thank you for recognising it is a bigger issue and my passion for it.

Cheers.




______________________________________ www.radicall.co.nz ________________________________________

Be Successful WITH US! - Light ideas for YOUR SUCCESS - Business Solutions OF A NEW AGE - Result Driven IDEAS _______________________________________________________________________________________________


790 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 152


  Reply # 934274 15-Nov-2013 10:52 Send private message

Slightly OT, but:


kow·tow
[kou-tou, -tou, koh-]

verb (used without object)
1.
to act in an obsequious manner; show servile deference.
2.
to touch the forehead to the ground while kneeling, as an act of worship, reverence, apology, etc., especially in former Chinese custom.

noun
3.
the act of kowtowing.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Origin:
1795–1805; < Chinese kòutóu literally, knock (one's) head





Absolutely nothing to do with cows or their tails.


1332 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 152
Inactive user


  Reply # 934411 15-Nov-2013 13:25 Send private message

BlueShift:
kiwitrc:
1080p: Is it normal that legislation in draft is made public?


Its a Wikileak. Pretty sure neither side of the negotiations wanted it public, least of all the US.


This. Also, its not legislation, its the negotiations for a trade agreement between multiple countries. If the US gets what they want from it, it will require NZ and the other 'partners' to make various changes to our legislation, such changes would be made in public as is required by our system of Government. Of course, by that time it will be difficult not to accept the changes as the trade agreeement will likely have various penalty clauses for reneging on it.


Well as I understand it, any kind of trade agreement that involves changes to our legislation would not be able to be signed until such changes are made. I don't see the hype here.

27 posts

Geek
+1 received by user: 2

Trusted
Radicall

  Reply # 934425 15-Nov-2013 13:34 Send private message

BlueShift: Slightly OT, but:


kow·tow
[kou-tou, -tou, koh-]

verb (used without object)
1.
to act in an obsequious manner; show servile deference.
2.
to touch the forehead to the ground while kneeling, as an act of worship, reverence, apology, etc., especially in former Chinese custom.

noun
3.
the act of kowtowing.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Origin:
1795–1805; < Chinese kòutóu literally, knock (one's) head





Absolutely nothing to do with cows or their tails.

Hmm that is close but it is not COW-TAILING, I like my definition, any thing wrong with it?




______________________________________ www.radicall.co.nz ________________________________________

Be Successful WITH US! - Light ideas for YOUR SUCCESS - Business Solutions OF A NEW AGE - Result Driven IDEAS _______________________________________________________________________________________________


790 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 152


  Reply # 934445 15-Nov-2013 14:08 Send private message

radicall:
BlueShift: Slightly OT, but:


kow·tow
[kou-tou, -tou, koh-]

verb (used without object)
1.
to act in an obsequious manner; show servile deference.
2.
to touch the forehead to the ground while kneeling, as an act of worship, reverence, apology, etc., especially in former Chinese custom.

noun
3.
the act of kowtowing.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Origin:
1795–1805; < Chinese kòutóu literally, knock (one's) head





Absolutely nothing to do with cows or their tails.

Hmm that is close but it is not COW-TAILING, I like my definition, any thing wrong with it?


Not a thing - I have a soft spot for neologisms, especially eggcorns

790 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 152


  Reply # 934446 15-Nov-2013 14:12 Send private message

1080p:
BlueShift:
kiwitrc:
1080p: Is it normal that legislation in draft is made public?


Its a Wikileak. Pretty sure neither side of the negotiations wanted it public, least of all the US.


This. Also, its not legislation, its the negotiations for a trade agreement between multiple countries. If the US gets what they want from it, it will require NZ and the other 'partners' to make various changes to our legislation, such changes would be made in public as is required by our system of Government. Of course, by that time it will be difficult not to accept the changes as the trade agreeement will likely have various penalty clauses for reneging on it.


Well as I understand it, any kind of trade agreement that involves changes to our legislation would not be able to be signed until such changes are made. I don't see the hype here.


I think the sore-spot here is that they sign it with the assurance that the agreed changes will be made. And if we aren't aware before it is signed what is being promised on our behalf, by the time we refuse to allow the changes, we are subject to penalties for failing to live up to the agreement.

790 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 152


  Reply # 934453 15-Nov-2013 14:15 Send private message

BlueShift:
1080p:
BlueShift:
kiwitrc:
1080p: Is it normal that legislation in draft is made public?


Its a Wikileak. Pretty sure neither side of the negotiations wanted it public, least of all the US.


This. Also, its not legislation, its the negotiations for a trade agreement between multiple countries. If the US gets what they want from it, it will require NZ and the other 'partners' to make various changes to our legislation, such changes would be made in public as is required by our system of Government. Of course, by that time it will be difficult not to accept the changes as the trade agreeement will likely have various penalty clauses for reneging on it.


Well as I understand it, any kind of trade agreement that involves changes to our legislation would not be able to be signed until such changes are made. I don't see the hype here.


I think the sore-spot here is that they sign it with the assurance that the agreed changes will be made. And if we aren't aware before it is signed what is being promised on our behalf, by the time we refuse to allow the changes, we are subject to penalties for failing to live up to the agreement.


Which sets it apart from, for instance, the asset sales, in that those were flagged well before the elections, so giving National a mandate to go ahead. These negotiations are being held in secret with none of the details being allowed to be known outside the guys in the room.

27 posts

Geek
+1 received by user: 2

Trusted
Radicall

  Reply # 934457 15-Nov-2013 14:20 Send private message

BlueShift:
radicall:
BlueShift: Slightly OT, but:


kow·tow
[kou-tou, -tou, koh-]

verb (used without object)
1.
to act in an obsequious manner; show servile deference.
2.
to touch the forehead to the ground while kneeling, as an act of worship, reverence, apology, etc., especially in former Chinese custom.

noun
3.
the act of kowtowing.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Origin:
1795–1805; < Chinese kòutóu literally, knock (one's) head





Absolutely nothing to do with cows or their tails.

Hmm that is close but it is not COW-TAILING, I like my definition, any thing wrong with it?


Not a thing - I have a soft spot for neologisms, especially eggcorns
Cool, hard to have an original thought these days.




______________________________________ www.radicall.co.nz ________________________________________

Be Successful WITH US! - Light ideas for YOUR SUCCESS - Business Solutions OF A NEW AGE - Result Driven IDEAS _______________________________________________________________________________________________


Awesome
3998 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 575

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 934459 15-Nov-2013 14:30 One person supports this post Send private message

BlueShift: Which sets it apart from, for instance, the asset sales, in that those were flagged well before the elections, so giving National a mandate to go ahead. These negotiations are being held in secret with none of the details being allowed to be known outside the guys in the room.


Slightly OT, but.....There seems to be a theme at the moment among governments that any policy taken to an election by the winning party gives them a 'mandate' to implement said policy, which is not the case. It's little more than a political tactic to they and justify unpopular policy.

People vote for parties for different reasons, and just because you vote for a particular party, does not mean you agree and endore every one of their policies. I know plenty of self proclaimed National voters who disagree with asset sales. And when you look at polling on the matter, they tend to agree that National DO NOT have a mandate for asset sales.

The situation is the same with the LNP here in Australia. Although they won the election, they did so with less than 50% of actual votes - yet they claim that gives them a 'mandate' to repeal carbon price initiatives- despite the fact many people voted for the LNP for no other reason than they 'didn't like the other crowd', and certainly not the majority of the country.






Twitter: ajobbins

369 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 60


  Reply # 934461 15-Nov-2013 14:37 One person supports this post Send private message

I suspect New Zealand has grown to expect ever higher levels of transparency from the outset of the formulation of government policy. We're living in an age where public servants can barely sneeze without having to offer public consultation on the matter, or expect calls for an inquiry. I am increasingly questioning the actual efficacy of this additional consultation and transparency.

2475 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 533

Subscriber

  Reply # 934471 15-Nov-2013 14:48 Send private message

ajobbins:
BlueShift: Which sets it apart from, for instance, the asset sales, in that those were flagged well before the elections, so giving National a mandate to go ahead. These negotiations are being held in secret with none of the details being allowed to be known outside the guys in the room.


Slightly OT, but.....There seems to be a theme at the moment among governments that any policy taken to an election by the winning party gives them a 'mandate' to implement said policy, which is not the case. It's little more than a political tactic to they and justify unpopular policy.

People vote for parties for different reasons, and just because you vote for a particular party, does not mean you agree and endore every one of their policies. I know plenty of self proclaimed National voters who disagree with asset sales. And when you look at polling on the matter, they tend to agree that National DO NOT have a mandate for asset sales.

The situation is the same with the LNP here in Australia. Although they won the election, they did so with less than 50% of actual votes - yet they claim that gives them a 'mandate' to repeal carbon price initiatives- despite the fact many people voted for the LNP for no other reason than they 'didn't like the other crowd', and certainly not the majority of the country.




yes it is off topic and you are really only splitting hairs, a government 'wins' an election based on seats, it really doesn't matter if 2 million vote or 1 thats the law, like it or not.




Galaxy S5 G900F
Samsung (custom)  KITKAT 4.4.2 

Galaxy Gear 2  Smart watch (great gadget )





2849 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 537

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 934473 15-Nov-2013 14:50 Send private message

k1wi: I suspect New Zealand has grown to expect ever higher levels of transparency from the outset of the formulation of government policy. We're living in an age where public servants can barely sneeze without having to offer public consultation on the matter, or expect calls for an inquiry. I am increasingly questioning the actual efficacy of this additional consultation and transparency.


I think there's probably a happy medium between 35 years of consultation and comment, before dumping the whole idea because the original proponents have since shuffled off this mortal coil, and 'Surprise! We passed this 10,000 page secret law to which we will secretly hold you accountable in secret last night, secretly.'




iPad Air + iPhone 5S + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

369 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 60


  Reply # 934481 15-Nov-2013 15:03 Send private message

jeffnz:
ajobbins:
BlueShift: Which sets it apart from, for instance, the asset sales, in that those were flagged well before the elections, so giving National a mandate to go ahead. These negotiations are being held in secret with none of the details being allowed to be known outside the guys in the room.


Slightly OT, but.....There seems to be a theme at the moment among governments that any policy taken to an election by the winning party gives them a 'mandate' to implement said policy, which is not the case. It's little more than a political tactic to they and justify unpopular policy.

People vote for parties for different reasons, and just because you vote for a particular party, does not mean you agree and endore every one of their policies. I know plenty of self proclaimed National voters who disagree with asset sales. And when you look at polling on the matter, they tend to agree that National DO NOT have a mandate for asset sales.

The situation is the same with the LNP here in Australia. Although they won the election, they did so with less than 50% of actual votes - yet they claim that gives them a 'mandate' to repeal carbon price initiatives- despite the fact many people voted for the LNP for no other reason than they 'didn't like the other crowd', and certainly not the majority of the country.




yes it is off topic and you are really only splitting hairs, a government 'wins' an election based on seats, it really doesn't matter if 2 million vote or 1 thats the law, like it or not.
It's pretty much what representative democracy is all about - a set of clearly defined rules that both enable the ability for representatives to govern while simultaneously placing limits on the absolute power of those in government.

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic




Twitter »
Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





Trending now »

Hot discussions in our forums right now:

How stable are snap IP addresses?
Created by Physn, last reply by timmmay on 23-Oct-2014 10:38 (19 replies)
Pages... 2


Spark Socialiser
Created by freitasm, last reply by freitasm on 22-Oct-2014 18:39 (34 replies)
Pages... 2 3


American legal jurisdiction in New Zealand
Created by ajobbins, last reply by gzt on 21-Oct-2014 14:58 (30 replies)
Pages... 2


Another Trade Me competitor: SellShed
Created by freitasm, last reply by SellShed on 22-Oct-2014 11:54 (42 replies)
Pages... 2 3


iPad Air 2 and iPad Mini 3. Gonna get one?
Created by Dingbatt, last reply by dickytim on 23-Oct-2014 12:17 (86 replies)
Pages... 4 5 6


Snap have failed our company!
Created by dafman, last reply by NonprayingMantis on 23-Oct-2014 11:56 (36 replies)
Pages... 2 3


Theif taunts 12 year old via stolen laptop
Created by macuser, last reply by charsleysa on 22-Oct-2014 23:49 (12 replies)

22nd Only: PB Tech BROTHER HL1110 Mono laser Printer $15 shipped(after $30 cashback)
Created by loceff13, last reply by loceff13 on 23-Oct-2014 08:55 (23 replies)
Pages... 2



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.

Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.