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  Reply # 226505 18-Jun-2009 23:40 Send private message

Telecom Retail must purchase BB on the same basis as other ISP's from Telecom Wholesale.

nzbnw







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  Reply # 226532 19-Jun-2009 06:25 Send private message

Some of the costs are wacked. One that makes think is the charges they have put on to 'pay for the building of the Cabernets. That's a one off fee and should be paid off over time. Unless they put it on a credit card and they are just paying the interest and not the debit.

It will be good to help to help build alternatives. Like wireless operations.

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  Reply # 226533 19-Jun-2009 06:49 Send private message

EnzoYug: But wait for how long? We'll be paying hand over fist to a bloated old dinosaur company that has been bashing us for ages. Fibre-to-the-door isn't right around the corner.



Perhaps I'm wrong but I haven't seen teams of trucks ripping up the streets laying fibre like it's going out of style. Have you? We will be waiting for a good time yet.



Every month that Telecom make more $ than their competitors is another month they cement the prices higher. Prices have gone up, and will keep going up - not down - for broadband for a while yet.





Acually, where I live in West Auckland, there have been nothing but trucks and Chorus staff digging up roads and laying fibre plus installing cabinets everywhere.  Through Ranui, Swansan and up to Waitakere there has been a huge amount of work over the past couple of months, in fact I now have a cabinet 300m from my house.  This is along amout 3km's of main road and a lot of roads off this.

Personally I think the competition moans too much, Telecom is spending huge sums of money to install all this infrastructure and other companies expect to get cheap access just because its Telecom.

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  Reply # 226602 19-Jun-2009 10:42 Send private message

The bit that hacks me off about this whole scam is that Telecom/Chorus knew that cabinetising LLU customers would result in massive service degradation (unless their engineers are as thick as two planks, anyway), then went ahead and did it anyway. I wonder why - trying to damage customer perception of other providers so they'll switch to Telecom perhaps?


Cabnetisation (FTTN) creates more advances that it damages (ie issues with mid span injection), to state that its backward is very uninformed.

I should also add, that when a customer is unbundled, Telecom should leave the line the heck alone. It should NOT be connected to a cabinet without the express permission of the freaking customers - Telecom is deliberately harming other networks' customers by cabinetising LLU lines.


The cable need not actaully be connected to the cabinet, simply the fact that other pairs in the wrapper are getting DSL signals at a different level from the cabinet compared to those from the distant exchange is the issue. For FTTN to work all customers need to be served from the cabinet, perfectly reasonable wholesale rates offered by Telecom to other ISPs make this workable and affordable.

I must admit that 1k per backhaul to each cabinet is a bit steep but anyone who has hired fibre runs for commercial requirements will not see these costs as out of order. What is out of order is if you are paying that 1k for only one or two subs.

Cyril




Ben

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  Reply # 226611 19-Jun-2009 11:00 Send private message

Sorry to sound all "socialist", but the sooner phone and internet lines become a public utility, the better. Internet access is a public good and should be treated as such, not used for making a profit. There's still room for profit on services over the lines (just as there would be advertising on websites transmitted over public lines).

Having said that, given how hard it is to get a sewer upgrade sorted out so beaches aren't polluted, I'd not hold high hopes for line upgrades.

Perhaps a Kiwishare-esque approach with ISPs required to provide at least an agreed-cost "base" plan to anyone who has access to public lines?



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  Reply # 226644 19-Jun-2009 12:09 Send private message

Ben: Perhaps a Kiwishare-esque approach with ISPs required to provide at least an agreed-cost "base" plan to anyone who has access to public lines?


And all ISPs will then lobby to get the main centre areas, and battle to make sure Telecom is the only only who should provide for rural areas and other non-profit areas? Then they will complain when the Kiwishare portion of the bill is sent their way?







Ben

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  Reply # 226652 19-Jun-2009 12:26 Send private message

freitasm:
And all ISPs will then lobby to get the main centre areas, and battle to make sure Telecom is the only only who should provide for rural areas and other non-profit areas? Then they will complain when the Kiwishare portion of the bill is sent their way?


Nah learn from the mistakes of Kiwishare: rural users should pay a line-length premium. I wonder how rural councils manage road charges for barely used country roads?

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  Reply # 226674 19-Jun-2009 13:09 Send private message

Regs:
  Kyanar:
Really, what needs to happen is for everyone else to get the same bill Telecom gets for the cabinet - to hell with the "return on investment".

that arguement is fine when the investor is the government or a SOE, not for a private company.

Kyanar: Pity it's a National government, since you'll never see National do anything to offend Big Business.


take a look at who sold/privatised telecom in the first place....   it wasnt the national government!



Yeah Labour were in power at the time. If history serves me correctly Telecom was sold during rogernomics.
Confusion possibly comes about since Richard Prebble and Roger Douglas are now members of ACT



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  Reply # 226729 19-Jun-2009 15:41 Send private message

This is a website put by Orcon to get more information/ideas on this debate.




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  Reply # 226751 19-Jun-2009 16:25 Send private message

I would love to start up a Pay TV operation, but Sky TV has got a monopoly, which means that it is uneconomical for their to be competition in the payTV space, without some form of regulation. The costs of setting up a competing network are far to high, especially as sky have market dominence. However when is that regulation going to occur. The commerce commission are obviously assuming that services such as pay TV will be offered through this sub unbundling, which is where the addon services come from that they refer to. These ISPs who are complaining, there is nothing stopping them setting up their own fibre throughout the country, and we all know that Vodafone is a very rich company, who sends the massive profits they make in NZ, back to the parent in the UK. Perhaps if they reinvested it back into NZs infrastructure with their own cable network. I thought they we in the mobile market anyway, so they could provide all their services wirelessly, and cut out telecom all together.
Vector are setting up their own network, so these complaining ISPs could join forces.

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  Reply # 226756 19-Jun-2009 16:30 Send private message

PS. Haven't Orcon only recently doubled their data charges that they charge their customers, and this has occurred after 'unbundling' which was supposed to provide us with cheaper faster braodband. Orcon have also recently purchased a web hosting company (iserve), so they have money to spend on assets, and being government owned they have a lot of money behind them. I wonder what they paid for iServe?

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  Reply # 226768 19-Jun-2009 16:58 Send private message

Great to see some solid debate on this issue.

Just FYI we have set up a website (http://saveourbroadband.co.nz/) to track the media coverage of the issue and provide more information as to why we think this is such a big problem for the future broadband competition (and ultimately the quality and price of broadband in NZ). I just threw it together today, so it is a bit sparse at the moment, but will be adding more content over the coming week.

If anyone would like to contribute content for the site, and share their perspective on how important broadband competition is I would love to hear from you.

There is also a twitter account you can follow: http://twitter.com/savebroadbandnz

Edit: Sorry Mauricio - just saw your post on this. it has been a long couple of days...

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  Reply # 227099 21-Jun-2009 10:26 Send private message

Kyanar: I should also add, that when a customer is unbundled, Telecom should leave the line the heck alone. It should NOT be connected to a cabinet without the express permission of the freaking customers - Telecom is deliberately harming other networks' customers by cabinetising LLU lines.


It's Telecom's network, not the customers, so it is up to them.  But unbundled lines can be switched back to the exchange if requested as the copper is left in the ground when cabinetised.

Telecom is not "harming other networks' customers" these customers would have remained with these bad speeds from the exchange if Telecom hadn't invested in cabinets.  So what are all these ISP's saying?  Not to improve the service of customers, isn't that what they have been fighting for?  No that's right, they are just out for themselves.

I'm in the "if you don't like it, build your own" camp as obviously their business case does not stack up.

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  Reply # 227106 21-Jun-2009 10:49 Send private message

But unbundled lines can be switched back to the exchange if requested as the copper is left in the ground when cabinetised.




As I said in an earlier post, the issue is DSL signals emanating from the cabinet spoiling weaker signals from the originating exchange that occurs due to coupling of pairs in the distribution cables. All unbundled lines must return to the originating exchange however will most certainly terminate through the MDF in the cabinet, but its not this landing on the cabinet MDF which is the issue but the coupling in the distribution lines. So unless you run completely seperate feeders for ULL users from the originating exchange to there demarc you will not totally fix the issue.



Cyril

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  Reply # 227110 21-Jun-2009 11:34 Send private message

BABAGOI

Build A Bridge And Get Over It.


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