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511 posts

Ultimate Geek
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Kiwi Dev Studios

  Reply # 306258 11-Mar-2010 13:15 Send private message

Do we have a list available of ISPs implementing this?




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Stephen
twitter/ NZCoderGuy / KiwiDevStudios

Kiwi Dev Studios


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Uber Geek
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Vodafone NZ

  Reply # 306264 11-Mar-2010 14:15 Send private message

http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/digital-living/3434754/New-Zealands-internet-filter-goes-live

... "The Department of Internal Affairs' (DIA) internet filter is now operational and is being used by internet providers (ISPs) Maxnet and Watchdog."

..."Telstra Clear, Telecom and Vodafone have said they will implement the filter, with Orcon, Slingshot and Natcom saying that they won't."






Broadcast Engineer Media Services Group Vodafone New Zealand

620 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 306265 11-Mar-2010 14:17 Send private message

ZollyMonsta: http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/digital-living/3434754/New-Zealands-internet-filter-goes-live

... "The Department of Internal Affairs' (DIA) internet filter is now operational and is being used by internet providers (ISPs) Maxnet and Watchdog."

..."Telstra Clear, Telecom and Vodafone have said they will implement the filter, with Orcon, Slingshot and Natcom saying that they won't."




  Wonder if any of these ISP's that are going to implement it will give their users an opt out option?

511 posts

Ultimate Geek
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Kiwi Dev Studios

  Reply # 306266 11-Mar-2010 14:21 Send private message

I can only assume if your ISP is applying this new filter, it will be for all users without having any option to opt out. otherwise, what would the point be?

Thanks also for the URL :)




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Stephen
twitter/ NZCoderGuy / KiwiDevStudios

Kiwi Dev Studios


BDFL
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  Reply # 306273 11-Mar-2010 14:34 Send private message

There is no opt-out at user level. The filter is "optional" for ISPs but if your ISP join the programme you are there...





25 posts

Geek


  Reply # 306281 11-Mar-2010 14:59 Send private message

I have read this site and noted down that they are blocking Child Pornography. Is this something weshould consider? Or is there a reason to saying no. I'm glad Xtra have adopted this marvelous Technology as I will not be able to view this most heinous material anymore.

It has been in the works for many years now, and according to much credited research it has not slowed down the internet at all. So why not use it. I would be in awe if New Zealand followed China into the 22nd Century and started to tell it's people what's accessible and what is not.

The only thing I can see wrong with it is a breach of freedom of speech, which of course we don;t have because we're New Zealand. Most people will not like this, and I can see a lot of people jumping ship because of it. Even though the S92a is looming in the midst

BDFL
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  Reply # 306284 11-Mar-2010 15:07 Send private message

The problem is that people trading this kind of material don't use the web. They use IRC channels, IM, encrypted emails. This filter won't change a thing for the really bad people.

Normal people just don't come across this kind of material in their daily use of the Internet because any site with this is quickly taken down.

However once a system is in place for filtering we can quickly get into some other stuff. What if the government of the day doesn't like having opposition parties on the Internet? What if they don't like people discussing the latest tax changes?

It is a big risk giving this power to an unknown entity with an unknown list.





46 posts

Geek


  Reply # 306292 11-Mar-2010 15:19 Send private message

My email to Telstra...

"I am considering moving my ISP provision to Telstra, however, Telstra's support for the DIA censorship scheme has made me think twice. I am against the scheme because I believe it endangers civil liberties and will not achieve its stated goals. I am familiar with DIAs rationale for the system and believe it to be flawed. I am saddened that so much effort and money is being wasted on this useless filter."

Their response...

"It is highly likely that TelstraClear will be implementing this software.
TelstraClear have been strongly supportive and expressed our desire to connect to the IP Filtering service because blocking child sex abuse sites is highly consistent with our brand and customers’ interests. Like our cyber bullying initiative, we will take steps to keep our customers safe online. When introduced, it is unlikely that users will have an "opt out" as this would over-ride the reasons for implementing it."

In other words:
"dear potential customer, like it or lump it, we're not interested in a discussion"

833 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 306321 11-Mar-2010 16:51 Send private message

freitasm: And the filter went "live" today.

My thoughts from back in July 2009 are still fresh.
bah! NZ just made one more step towards the dark ages....


ZollyMonsta: http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/digital-living/3434754/New-Zealands-internet-filter-goes-live

...
"The Department of Internal Affairs' (DIA) internet filter is now
operational and is being used by internet providers (ISPs) Maxnet and
Watchdog."

..."Telstra Clear, Telecom and Vodafone have said
they will implement the filter, with Orcon, Slingshot and Natcom saying
that they won't."
horray! Another reason that it is great I'm on
Orcon. I'm going to spread this across facebook to encourage boycotting
of Telstra Clear, Telecom and Vodafone

PhantomSS: I have read this site and noted down that they are
blocking Child Pornography. Is this something weshould consider? Or is
there a reason to saying no. I'm glad Xtra have adopted this marvelous
Technology as I will not be able to view this most heinous material
anymore.
lol, I laughed out that for real. That a person could
seriously say: " I'm glad Xtra have adopted this marvelous Technology
as I will not be able to view this most heinous material anymore".
Because not only is it so ludicrously wrong (I've been surfing the web
for years and I've got some dodgy inclinations yet I've never ever seen
child porn, sure you see those commercial sites which are pushing the
envelope but they're just 18+ actors who look a couple of years younger.
Not the thing of pedophiles, I've never gone "OMG that is a 5yo boy
being defiled in the arse by a pedo in beard, glasses, and grey
trench coat!!!!" .  haha, your chance of stumbling on that is ZERO
PERCENT), but it implies it will *stop* you viewing child porn....   to
be able to stop, you must be doing it right now! haha, an admission of
guilt

PhantomSS: It has been in the works for many years
now, and according to much credited research it has not slowed down the
internet at all. So why not use it. I would be in awe if New Zealand
followed China into the 22nd Century and started to tell it's people
what's accessible and what is not.
thank goodness I keep on
reading to this point and realised you're joking. Following China in to
the 22nd century eh...

adam77: My email to Telstra...

"I am considering moving
my ISP provision to Telstra, however, Telstra's support for the DIA
censorship scheme has made me think twice. I am against the scheme
because I believe it endangers civil liberties and will not achieve its
stated goals. I am familiar with DIAs rationale for the system and
believe it to be flawed. I am saddened that so much effort and money is
being wasted on this useless filter."


Their response...

"It is highly likely that TelstraClear will be implementing this software.

TelstraClear
have been strongly supportive and expressed our desire to connect to
the IP Filtering service because blocking child sex abuse sites is
highly consistent with our brand and customers’ interests. Like our
cyber bullying initiative, we will take steps to keep our customers
safe online. When introduced, it is unlikely that users will have an
"opt out" as this would over-ride the reasons for implementing it."


In other words:

"dear potential customer, like it or lump it, we're not interested in a
discussion"
A very good idea, we should all send out emails to
Telstra Clear, Telecom and Vodafone. Explaining exactly why we will not
be using their service. And likewise an email to  Orcon, Slingshot and
Natcom congratulating them on their stance.


Personally I'll write an email along the lines of "because I'm going to
be moving soon I'm naturally looking for a new ISP but having
discovered you're going to implement this filter I've automatically
ruled you out as a possibility"




Who I am: multi time Ironman finisher, University of Auckland graduate, Freelancer (mainly focused on website development, message me for work).

twitter.com/TersoIT

174 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 7


  Reply # 306419 11-Mar-2010 22:09 Send private message

I posted this in the Vodafone sub-forum, but rscole86 pointed out that discussion was already taking place here:

I have a fundamental problem with censorship; especially as it pertains to the internet. Even worse, there will be no oversight into what material or websites get blacklisted. As is all too common with censorship throughout history, it takes a very short space of time for the scope of what's deemed "inappropriate" to increase. It always starts with "think of the children".

I would feel better if not all the major ISPs were backing this so eagerly. Better yet, why doesn't the DIA allow public oversight? Transparency would make everyone feel better. The way this has and is being handled is really strange.

147 posts

Master Geek
Inactive user


  Reply # 306424 11-Mar-2010 22:42 Send private message

digg the article here:

http://digg.com/tech_news/New_Zealand_s_internet_filter_goes_live_Stuff_co_nz/

hey by the way, i wonder how the system operates. if there was illegal porn on youtube.com, would the whole of youtube be blocked by the filter or just the direct link like for example youtube.com/video/watch453534

601 posts

Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 306461 12-Mar-2010 08:33 Send private message

yuxek:

hey by the way, i wonder how the system operates. if there was illegal porn on youtube.com, would the whole of youtube be blocked by the filter or just the direct link like for example youtube.com/video/watch453534


There is a set of IP addresses which are marked as "suspect".  These IP addresses are routed to the DIA by the ISP.  The DIA then has an HTTP proxy with a more detailed list of URLs on those sites.  The requested URL is then matched against the request.  If it matches, it is redirected to the DIA's warning page.  Otherwise it is proxied to the final destination.

Problems with the method:
1) It only works on HTTP.  If the site uses HTTPS, it's foiled.  Heck, it probably only works on port 80.
2) The list is private
3) There's no way to know if you're on the list
4) There's no easy way to get off the list.
5) The list is populated based on recommendations of an NGO. 
6) The requirements to be on the list are not well defined.
7) Filtering like this is easily subject to capture by extreme groups of either side.

All this will do is encourage web sites to go to HTTPS, and users to purchase VPN accounts to locations which have stronger free speech laws (the US), which is bad for the Internet and bad for New Zealand. 




21 posts

Geek

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  Reply # 306533 12-Mar-2010 11:09 Send private message

Hi,

Here's the list of ISPs I did back in July 2009.

http://thomasbeagle.net/2009/07/17/but-which-isps/

I'm currently trying to update it and will post it at the Tech Liberty NZ site when I do.
 
Orcon are currently wavering a bit. If you're an Orcon user and want your internet to remain unfiltered, write to them now! 

147 posts

Master Geek
Inactive user


  Reply # 306620 12-Mar-2010 13:55 Send private message

it's a shame web browser companies don't integrate something like tor into their software. they already integrate proxy settings but no onion routing.

maybe someone in new zealand can create a tor plugin for ie8 and a tor extension for chrome.

BDFL
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  Reply # 306623 12-Mar-2010 13:59 Send private message

Thomas, can you confirm which ISPs are active right now?

I am asking this because someone asked in the Vodafone forums why xvideos.com is blocked (porn site, absolutely NSFW). Vodafone people implied - without saying it - that it was blocked by the DIA filter and pointed to this discussion.

However I am using TelstraClear which seems to be part of the filter and that site resolves fine here and certainly it's an adult site, but not the type of porn the DIA filter are supposed to protect us against.

My question is: since the DIA list is unknown to us, could an ISP start blocking websites on its own, then blaming the DIA filter? They could be doing this just to reduce traffic, etc.





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