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  Reply # 339567 8-Jun-2010 21:50 Send private message

Ragnor: Government financial incentives almost always create unintended perverse incentives, see Australia for an example for fraud and failure associated with their heating and insulation program.

I bet the same thing is already happening here, just won't come out for a few years.

Refer to
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/politics/insulation-scams-hit-160000/story-e6frgczf-1225832389556


Look here for scams with insulation. the govt funding available installations will always come up about the subsidy amount above the same stuff from a non accredited installer.

Really annoys me the subsidys for improving assets.

govt messing in things is just wrong, so I can see that if they start to require home wiring that there will be all sorts of pointless inspection processes needed to get sign off for a service that will be of little interest to loads of people.




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  Reply # 339572 8-Jun-2010 21:55 Send private message

richms:
Ragnor: Government financial incentives almost always create unintended perverse incentives, see Australia for an example for fraud and failure associated with their heating and insulation program.

I bet the same thing is already happening here, just won't come out for a few years.

Refer to
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/politics/insulation-scams-hit-160000/story-e6frgczf-1225832389556


Look here for scams with insulation. the govt funding available installations will always come up about the subsidy amount above the same stuff from a non accredited installer.

Really annoys me the subsidys for improving assets.

govt messing in things is just wrong, so I can see that if they start to require home wiring that there will be all sorts of pointless inspection processes needed to get sign off for a service that will be of little interest to loads of people.


Would completely agree. What would be better would be for an industry body certification that gets widespread knowledge. E.g. a Master electrician association where members are trained in star wiring etc. and won't skimp to save a few $$ in the short run at the risk of long term pain





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  Reply # 339598 8-Jun-2010 22:40 Send private message

The sparkys were left totally in the dark (rimshot please) about the changes at the start of april, so I have no faith in their industry bodies to sort stuff out for them about non regulation changes like recommendations for phone/data wiring.

The FPB people are trying their hardest, but seem to be spreading their marketing efforts too thin telling you about other stuff too like insulation and water heating etc. Putting it in "security and automation" is stupid IMO since it makes it sound expensive.




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  Reply # 339622 9-Jun-2010 00:00 Send private message

richms: the govt funding available installations will always come up about the subsidy amount above the same stuff from a non accredited installer.


i had quotes done for insulation both before, and after the subsidy was announced.  The installed cost didnt change at all, just got cheaper after taking 1/3 off...  so your statement is complete BS




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  Reply # 339644 9-Jun-2010 02:27 Send private message

Regs:
richms: the govt funding available installations will always come up about the subsidy amount above the same stuff from a non accredited installer.


i had quotes done for insulation both before, and after the subsidy was announced.  The installed cost didnt change at all, just got cheaper after taking 1/3 off...  so your statement is complete BS


Plenty of people getting wildly varying quotes if you look around.




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  Reply # 339789 9-Jun-2010 13:56 Send private message

richms:
Regs:
richms: the govt funding available installations will always come up about the subsidy amount above the same stuff from a non accredited installer.


i had quotes done for insulation both before, and after the subsidy was announced.  The installed cost didnt change at all, just got cheaper after taking 1/3 off...  so your statement is complete BS


Plenty of people getting wildly varying quotes if you look around.


i'm not disagreeing that some installers will milk the system, its your use of the word always that i have a problem with.  perhaps you should have used 'i have heard of instances where...' or something to that effect.  Note that even before these subsidies i had differing quotes from different installers for the same product - some were easily 1/3 higher than others.




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  Reply # 339921 9-Jun-2010 19:56 Send private message

Getting back on topic...

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say I don't think the suggested minimum standards for household networking should be brought in... To say all houses need dual gigabit feeds and the number of coax feeds to each room of the house is a bit extreme. All it will do is add extra costs on potential homeowners that don't even want to use their household network in anything like the way users of these forums (including myself) use them...

I'd much rather see a standard where it is simple and easy to upgrade, perhaps through ducting etc.

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  Reply # 339929 9-Jun-2010 20:15 Send private message

k1wi:
I'd much rather see a standard where it is simple and easy to upgrade, perhaps through ducting etc.


yeah, a minimum standard that requires conduit to be pre-installed to allow retrofitting later might be a good option.  without conduit you often get a balled up mess of your insulation when attempting to drill down through the nogs




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  Reply # 340002 9-Jun-2010 22:52 Send private message

Regs:
k1wi:
I'd much rather see a standard where it is simple and easy to upgrade, perhaps through ducting etc.


yeah, a minimum standard that requires conduit to be pre-installed to allow retrofitting later might be a good option.  without conduit you often get a balled up mess of your insulation when attempting to drill down through the nogs


And also situations where for example the ground floor is on a concrete pad and you are wanting to run new cable to ground floor outlets on a 2 story house.





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  Reply # 340018 9-Jun-2010 23:48 Send private message

I disagree, it is just another feature in the house like a third bathroom or internal access garage that is optional.

Noone forces people to install a central vac system in their house or pre-plumb for it, and those are much harder to install after the fact than a few pieces of cat5e. There is always the option of surface cabling for houses that didnt have it installed.




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  Reply # 341590 14-Jun-2010 16:46 Send private message

Ragnor:
richms: flatmate has N, and cannot stream questionably aquired blueray rips across the room despite a claimed link speed of 300 megs, wired 100 meg works fine.

If I have my 2 2.4GHz phone bases plugged in then it also causes him more thruput issues on it. This is on a house with a decent distance between it and the 10+ networks that are in the neighbouring houses. If this was a shoebox house like in dannymora etc with the neighbours houses within touching distance then I would expect even worse.


What make/model is his wireless adapter and what make/model is the router?

Throughput can vary a heck of lot between different makes and models in my experience.

300Mbit/s is of course marketing hype given wireless is not full duplex and so on.  One thing to check, make sure he's using WPA2 with AES.  Most draft 802.11n products will knock your throughput down by up to 80% if you use WEP or WPA/TKIP security.

Try setting your router to a different channel, you may just have a crowded radio spectrum around there.




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  Reply # 341591 14-Jun-2010 16:47 Send private message

richms: The sparkys were left totally in the dark (rimshot please) about the changes at the start of april, so I have no faith in their industry bodies to sort stuff out for them about non regulation changes like recommendations for phone/data wiring.

The FPB people are trying their hardest, but seem to be spreading their marketing efforts too thin telling you about other stuff too like insulation and water heating etc. Putting it in "security and automation" is stupid IMO since it makes it sound expensive.


If any standard is to become mandatory then the relevant standard should be freely available, including any referenced documents. Its also wrong to assume that sparkies will do all telecommunications cabling in houses, because lots of telecomms contractors know far more about data cabling, so there should definitely be a mechanism to judge whether any installer is capable of modern data networks.

In Australia, mandatory Standards apply to the installation of cable and equipment intended for connection to carriers’ networks and are covered in AUSTEL Technical Standards TS 008 and TS 009 and the cabler needs an AUSTEL cabling licence.

In New Zealand, certain requirements are mandated in Codes of Practice of carriers. eg Telecom PTC 103 for Telecom residential wiring. With the convergence of telecoms and data cabling it seems that AS/NZS 3086 is the defacto standard, probably out of date already. Without mandated premises cabling standards, there will be fewer benefits and higher costs for the 1.5B of taxpayer money being invested into the FTTP programme.

If ducting was an option for such a standard, it would have to specify diameter, bend radius, fire rating etc for different applications, eg minimum 10mm LSZH innerduct might be required for ceiling spaces. Maybe should also specify pulling wire/tape to be preinstalled into empty duct.




Qualified in business, certified in fibre, stuck in copper, have to keep going  ^_^

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