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  Reply # 392351 15-Oct-2010 18:50 Send private message

richms: Telecom have a massive investment in a network, they deserve a return on that. Now that future returns are in jeopardy thanks to socialized FTTH rollouts, its even more criminal that the CC are telling telecom how to price their services IMO.


First off enough with the socialized rubbish, I hear enough of it coming out of the USA.

Next its the price you pay for getting a national network without the investment and building cost handed to you on a silver platter whilst using strong arming tactics to keep a monopoly position

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  Reply # 392357 15-Oct-2010 19:06 Send private message

What would you call a government funded network in that case? Its socalized by the share definition of it, same as the health system and many other things here. Dont get angry because the name is correct.

The network may or may not have been sold at a value that was too low, that's not the issue. If you get something at a bargain price you shouldn't suddenly have to not have ownership of it because the seller gets remorse over selling it.

For all the screwing around the commerce commission have done, we are still getting rightly screwed on internet in NZ - it clearly isnt working so they should give up IMO.




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  Reply # 392363 15-Oct-2010 19:19

Beccara:
richms: Telecom have a massive investment in a network, they deserve a return on that. Now that future returns are in jeopardy thanks to socialized FTTH rollouts, its even more criminal that the CC are telling telecom how to price their services IMO.


First off enough with the socialized rubbish, I hear enough of it coming out of the USA.


Next its the price you pay for getting a national network without the investment and building cost handed to you on a silver platter whilst using strong arming tactics to keep a monopoly position


 

If this current NZ FTTH isn't a socialised project in sheeps clothing, I don't know what is.

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  Reply # 392366 15-Oct-2010 19:27 Send private message

And what is the outcome from this investigation going to be? A small change in the cost that ISPs pay telecom/whoever for the loop. A loop that is not the bulk of the cost of an internet connection. So I may save a few bucks on a couple of hundred a month.

Big deal.

Wasting their time on sorting out a small discrepancy between what other ISPs pay and telecom retail pay will not change anything with the dire state of internet in NZ. It will just cause many beancounters at the commerce commission patting themselves on the back, reports written and read at taxpayer expense etc.




Richard rich.ms

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  Reply # 392487 16-Oct-2010 09:00 Send private message

Beccara:
Next its the price you pay for getting a national network without the investment and building cost handed to you on a silver platter whilst using strong arming tactics to keep a monopoly position


In relation to this, I have often heard similar comments but I am sure I have seen something which said the government of the day sold the assets, liabilities, contracts etc for a value that they determined to be fair at that time. Now I appreciate that the actions of the owners at later date led to all sorts of discussions around potential price gouging, monoplistic actions etc. But as a willing buyer and a willing seller reached a agreement on price this in my mind equates to market value I am not sure we an say that it was handed over on a silver platter.

The here and now is that Telecom Wholesale have a number of structures, policies and reasonably open book accounting to ensure that how they determine their costs for charging their customers (including Telecom Retail) is clear to all.

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  Reply # 392556 16-Oct-2010 12:51 Send private message

Telecom actions are anticompetitive, they had made deals with the government that as a monopoly they would not be anticompetitive in the telecommunications industry. Because Telecom was selling it's services cheaper to it's self than it's wholesale customers, it was being anticompetitive. RichMS it may save you only a couple of dollars a month, but times that but all the users and it quickly adds up to hundreds of thousands of dollars a month.
Telecom was operationally separated into three divisions. Telecoms actions here show they are cheating the system by offering there retail division a cheaper deal than it's wholesale division. Meaning that the separation is only on paper and not in practice. When the government sold Telecom, the package also included obligations to the nation. Telecom has tried hard to mutate, drop and reinterpret those obligations to it's own good at the cost of the New Zealand people and it's market competitors.

Telecom should stop acting like a disgruntled child, it doesn't work, they are a national asset and should be more socially aware of there place in New Zealands society.

IM2c



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  Reply # 392566 16-Oct-2010 13:06 Send private message

hellonearthisman: Telecom was operationally separated into three divisions. Telecoms actions here show they are cheating the system by offering there retail division a cheaper deal than it's wholesale division. Meaning that the separation is only on paper and not in practice. When the government sold Telecom, the package also included obligations to the nation. Telecom has tried hard to mutate, drop and reinterpret those obligations to it's own good at the cost of the New Zealand people and it's market competitors.


Do you realise this is the start of an investigation, not the conclusion. When you write "Telecoms (sic) actions here show they are cheating the system" it sounds like the investigation has concluded that - which is not the case.







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  Reply # 394920 22-Oct-2010 23:13 Send private message

robbyp:
richms: TL;DR ;)

Seriously, cant the commerce commission just butt out of dealing with internet issues, they are too slow to be effective and their dimensioning of the regulated services CIR clearly shows they have no clue about what is needed for.


It will take them 6 months to complete their investigation, then probably another 6 months while they get appeals and stuff, while services are still dire and slow.


 

Often it can take years and years. The commerce commission should be doing their job with the finance companies who have cost mum and dad investors billions, wiping billions from NZs wealth. Instead they are obsessed with  telecom and the telco industry, where there is now reasonable cut throat competition.


Um.... cut throat competition where?? in the retail market - yes. in the wholesale market - sometimes. competition to provide the local loop - what planet are you on? Competition for sub-loop unbundling - have you heard of cabinetisation? Telecommunications Act requires ComCom to enforce both competition and the Telecommunications Act. It does not require ComCom to enforce anything at all in the securities trading markets or to decide what financiers can join schemes run by Treasury. Telecom may not compete fairly all of the time but they do play nicely when they have to, and ComCom has a role to ensure some minimal competitive standards in the country.




Qualified in business, certified in fibre, stuck in copper, have to keep going  ^_^

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  Reply # 395044 23-Oct-2010 16:43 Send private message

webwat:
robbyp:
richms: TL;DR ;)

Seriously, cant the commerce commission just butt out of dealing with internet issues, they are too slow to be effective and their dimensioning of the regulated services CIR clearly shows they have no clue about what is needed for.


It will take them 6 months to complete their investigation, then probably another 6 months while they get appeals and stuff, while services are still dire and slow.


 

Often it can take years and years. The commerce commission should be doing their job with the finance companies who have cost mum and dad investors billions, wiping billions from NZs wealth. Instead they are obsessed with  telecom and the telco industry, where there is now reasonable cut throat competition.



Um.... cut throat competition where?? in the retail market - yes. in the wholesale market - sometimes. competition to provide the local loop - what planet are you on? Competition for sub-loop unbundling - have you heard of cabinetisation? Telecommunications Act requires ComCom to enforce both competition and the Telecommunications Act. It does not require ComCom to enforce anything at all in the securities trading markets or to decide what financiers can join schemes run by Treasury. Telecom may not compete fairly all of the time but they do play nicely when they have to, and ComCom has a role to ensure some minimal competitive standards in the country.


Yes we havce heard of cabinetization.  It was done by Telecom  to offer better BB speeds  to  outlying areas.  Any teleco or ISP could hve done it but chose not to and  then when Telecom did it they like you moan about it.  There's no pleazing every one is there??




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  Reply # 396074 27-Oct-2010 00:09 Send private message

richms: And what is the outcome from this investigation going to be? A small change in the cost that ISPs pay telecom/whoever for the loop. A loop that is not the bulk of the cost of an internet connection. So I may save a few bucks on a couple of hundred a month.

Big deal.



ISP's pay for the ADSL port, backhaul and handover, those costs are not insignificant.  If you look at the end user price of say $100 for 40GB, adsl port cost alone is about 1/4 of that.



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