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Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 413976 7-Dec-2010 12:01 Send private message

Was it widely expected that these operators would win these regions, or is this a surprise ?

I notice the price all state or less, reckon they'll provide reasonable discounts initially to get people on board.



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  Reply # 413977 7-Dec-2010 12:04 Send private message

Paul Spain posted the Q&A here: www.geekzone.co.nz/paulspain/7490




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  Reply # 413980 7-Dec-2010 12:11 Send private message

Talkiet:
NonprayingMantis: Ok, maybe I am misunderstanding CIR here (so feel free to correct me) but the committed information rate part on that table would imply that the $40 price would only be for a CIR of 2.5Mbps, wouldn't it?
i.e. that the line might 'allow' 30Mbps (like ADSL2+ 'allows' 24Mbps) but in reality you would only be guaranteed 2.5Mbps at that basic price - which seems pretty pathetic IMO.


Oh dear...

The wholesale indicate price of (for example) $40 for the "30Mbps" plan is equivalent to the naked EUBA services... See the following comment from the CFH FAQ...

"UFB pricing is at wholesale level and end users should bear in mind that prices of retail UFB services will reflect non-Local Fibre Company costs, such as national backhaul, international bandwidth, provisioning, billing and so forth. CFH, Northpower and UltraFast Fibre intend to publish final UFB wholesale prices prior to initial sales of retail UFB services. The following are indicative of expected products and prices and are initial prices only. Prices are per month excluding GST"

$40 is a SMALL input to the final price a consumer will pay... I predict almost everyone will lose sight of this and be terribly surprised when they can't buy a 30Mbps service for $40.

Cheers - N


Oh i realise that these prices are wholesale,  I was more referring to the speeds quoted vs achievable speeds.    It deosn't really matter if the quoted speeds are huge,  if the achievable speed is similar to what we get on ADSL2+ today then what's the point.

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Ultimate Geek


  Reply # 413982 7-Dec-2010 12:15 Send private message

AJ78: Was it widely expected that these operators would win these regions, or is this a surprise ?

I notice the price all state or less, reckon they'll provide reasonable discounts initially to get people on board.


These two operators were shortlisted along with Alpine Energy for Timaru. 
Interesting that it took 3 months to tie down the details and a deal with Alpine wasnt done. 

So widely expected?  More likely than not would be a fair assessment.

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  Reply # 413984 7-Dec-2010 12:16 Send private message

NonprayingMantis:

Oh i realise that these prices are wholesale,  I was more referring to the speeds quoted vs achievable speeds.    It deosn't really matter if the quoted speeds are huge,  if the achievable speed is similar to what we get on ADSL2+ today then what's the point.


Well, what everyone needs to keep in mind is that the price of the international bandwidth feeding current ADSL customers will essentially not change when it starts feeding UFB customers.

If anyone expects a significantly different cost structure for the components of BB costs outside the actual access methods (and direct UFB/DSL specific components), then I would ask they justify that expectation.

And as for the speed - 2.5Mbps CIR is a MASSIVE amount. I wonder how far back into the network that is carried?

Cheers - N

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  Reply # 413986 7-Dec-2010 12:22 Send private message

This is amazing.

We will now have 100Mb/s connectivity to congested backhaul, oversubscribed ISP routers and under-purchased and overutilised International Links.
Sign me up! The faster my packets can hit congestion the better!

Now damnit, where's my Koolaid? I keep losing it.




Checkout the EPIC5 script I work on, LiCe. Makes console based IRC fun and easy to use, just like the old days!



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  Reply # 413988 7-Dec-2010 12:23 Send private message

^ Funniest comment ever...






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  Reply # 413990 7-Dec-2010 12:30 Send private message


TELECOM NOTES ULTRA-FAST BROADBAND ANNOUNCEMENT

Telecom has today noted Crown Fibre Holdings’ (CFH) announcement that it has confirmed its partners for two regions of the government’s Ultra-fast Broadband initiative, representing around 16% of the 75% targeted by the UFB initiative.

CFH has selected NorthPower (covering the Whangarei area) and Ultra Fast Fibre Limited, owned by WEL Networks (covering Hamilton, Tauranga, Cambridge, Te Awamutu, Tokoroa, New Plymouth, Hawera and Wanganui).

CFH had previously announced on 9 September 2010 that it was in priority negotiations with companies relating to those areas.

“This announcement confirms CFH’s previously indicated intention in these areas, and Telecom’s proposal is focused on the remainder of the country,”
said Paul Reynolds, Telecom CEO.

“We continue to engage in the process being run by CFH to determine the successful partners for the rest of the country, however time is running out and we are conscious that our shareholders need resolution.

“We are firmly of the belief that a structurally separate Chorus as the cornerstone of a national framework for fibre is the most efficient and effective way to deliver the government’s fibre vision and that is reflected in our proposal.

“We are also open to partnership with other public and private sector owners of fibre assets, including the parties selected as CFH’s partners, where partnership can improve the overall economics of a national solution to deliver fibre further and faster for New Zealand,” he said.







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  Reply # 413992 7-Dec-2010 12:39 Send private message

muppet: This is amazing.

We will now have 100Mb/s connectivity to congested backhaul, oversubscribed ISP routers and under-purchased and overutilised International Links.
Sign me up! The faster my packets can hit congestion the better!

Now damnit, where's my Koolaid? I keep losing it.

The minimum CIRs are stated as being 2.5Mbit/s, which is a whole let better than <96kbit ;)
So hopefully that'll mean 2.5mbit back to your ISP, where they'll really feel the effects of not enough international!

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  Reply # 414045 7-Dec-2010 14:19 Send private message

Here are some things I want to know:

How is the fibre going to be laid? Micro trenching or digging up the footpath? If its digging up the footpath how am I going to drive my car from the road to my garage when the footpath is dug up and the concrete is drying? Will it be half of the driveway 1 day and half the next?

Is the fibre going to come into my property or do I have to pay extra to get the fibre from the footpath to my property?
 

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  Reply # 414048 7-Dec-2010 14:26 Send private message

tombrownzz: Here are some things I want to know:

How is the fibre going to be laid? Micro trenching or digging up the footpath? If its digging up the footpath how am I going to drive my car from the road to my garage when the footpath is dug up and the concrete is drying? Will it be half of the driveway 1 day and half the next?

Is the fibre going to come into my property or do I have to pay extra to get the fibre from the footpath to my property?
 


Here in Whangarei Northpower have been putting it up on the power poles along side the power lines so you wouldn't even know it was there unless you knew what to look for.




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  Reply # 414049 7-Dec-2010 14:27 Send private message

Based on the NorthPower network the fibre is is strung pole top and enters the house like your power lines do. Up here the install charge covers the install from Pole to House.

I think people are ignoring the local content that will benefit from the better speeds, You might not get anywhere near 100mbit running a international torrent but your iTunes Tv download will etc

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  Reply # 414051 7-Dec-2010 14:31 Send private message

muppet: This is amazing.

We will now have 100Mb/s connectivity to congested backhaul, oversubscribed ISP routers and under-purchased and overutilised International Links.
Sign me up! The faster my packets can hit congestion the better!

Now damnit, where's my Koolaid? I keep losing it.


This is actually much better than being at the mercy of ComCom regulated Telecom wholesale UBA backhaul and handover links (handover links being the real problem currently)

So yes it will come down to ISP's contention ratios on their own domestic/international peering and transit but because ISP's will actually differentiate themselves by (international) performance this is a good thing for savvy customers.

Looking at just the trip from your to your ISP's network:

UFB 100Mbit with 2.5Mbit CIR (presumably to the ISP core network) = 40:1 contention
Current ADSL 10Mbit with 45kbps handover dimesnsioning = ~228:1

That is a significant improvement imo.


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  Reply # 414052 7-Dec-2010 14:34 Send private message

wreck90:
cyberhub: Wow - I have to say that I am pleasantly surprised at the cheap pricing for this.

It does not make much sense to me.

So many questions

Are data charges going to be on top of this base price?
How are the plans going to be structured?
How is excess usage going to be handled?
Is the Southern Cross Cable going to decrease the cost of international bandwidth?

Also the maths does not add up for me.

Currently to get fibre to one place if the fibre runs past your building it costs around $6000 to dig a hole and connect up the building, so divide this by the 1.5 billion this equals only 250,000 houses and businesses connected to fibre.

Does someone else have a better understanding of how this is going to work?




Even the ISP's do not know what products and services they will offer. 

But, you can extrapolate from todays plans, and from what is offered overseas. 

1.Data charges may of course be on top depending on plan. Data hogs will be a problem on the new network too. 

2. Isn't this part of 1? There will be plans priced for different speeds, some will be capped, some will not be capped.Some may offer free national data. Some will include calls. There will be new phones for the new network. Some may offer triple play, data, video, and phone.   The new network may become sky's largest competitor. Video conferencing built into HD TV's may become common. 

3. Excess usage will be charged by some ISP's, given free by others, depending on your plan. 

4. Southern cross will continue to set prices according to market forces. I don't see the new network will decrease southern cross charges. But,Sam Morgans new undersea cable  may drive down prices after/if it is built. 
 


Demand and supply are pushing Southern Cross into upgrading capacity, so data prices might improve before the new pacific fibre is ready. Southern Cross is approaching its useby date and is now in the phase of milking the market to recover previous losses before building the next cable — there still needs to be a third trans-oceanic network to ensure ongoing competition. In the mean time, I suspect that ISPs will initially offer some choice of specified international speed limits or go with established per-MB usage charges (less any difference in backhaul costs).

I would say most retail offerings will include at least 1 VoIP phone number but, depending on hardware used by WEL and NorthPower, could be supplied as a POTS line directly from the ONT or as a VoIP service to the ISP/VoIP provider's indoor hardware. There is still a place for naked broadband (ie not bundled with voice) where customers have their own VoIP provider or use voice over a different network, but users will assume that any primary voice service packaged with the broadband has enough backup of both power and SIP routing for a resilient emergency service. I mean "assume" because average users will not consider that phones stop when broadband goes down.

2.5Mbps CIR is high for a residential service, implying that a number of users on a chassis would be limited by its port density rather than the speed of its backhaul uplinks or the PON split ratio.

No word on pricing of dark fibre, or on whether any L2 carrier is planning a nationwide UFB service wholesaled to smaller ISPs yet.

Good to see Paul Spain is on the case! Keep it up Paul... Cool




Qualified in business, certified in fibre, stuck in copper, have to keep going  ^_^

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Ultimate Geek


  Reply # 414056 7-Dec-2010 14:39 Send private message

webwat:
wreck90:
cyberhub: Wow - I have to say that I am pleasantly surprised at the cheap pricing for this.

It does not make much sense to me.

So many questions

Are data charges going to be on top of this base price?
How are the plans going to be structured?
How is excess usage going to be handled?
Is the Southern Cross Cable going to decrease the cost of international bandwidth?

Also the maths does not add up for me.

Currently to get fibre to one place if the fibre runs past your building it costs around $6000 to dig a hole and connect up the building, so divide this by the 1.5 billion this equals only 250,000 houses and businesses connected to fibre.

Does someone else have a better understanding of how this is going to work?




Even the ISP's do not know what products and services they will offer. 

But, you can extrapolate from todays plans, and from what is offered overseas. 

1.Data charges may of course be on top depending on plan. Data hogs will be a problem on the new network too. 

2. Isn't this part of 1? There will be plans priced for different speeds, some will be capped, some will not be capped.Some may offer free national data. Some will include calls. There will be new phones for the new network. Some may offer triple play, data, video, and phone.   The new network may become sky's largest competitor. Video conferencing built into HD TV's may become common. 

3. Excess usage will be charged by some ISP's, given free by others, depending on your plan. 

4. Southern cross will continue to set prices according to market forces. I don't see the new network will decrease southern cross charges. But,Sam Morgans new undersea cable  may drive down prices after/if it is built. 
 


Demand and supply are pushing Southern Cross into upgrading capacity, so data prices might improve before the new pacific fibre is ready. Southern Cross is approaching its useby date and is now in the phase of milking the market to recover previous losses before building the next cable — there still needs to be a third trans-oceanic network to ensure ongoing competition. In the mean time, I suspect that ISPs will initially offer some choice of specified international speed limits or go with established per-MB usage charges (less any difference in backhaul costs).

I would say most retail offerings will include at least 1 VoIP phone number but, depending on hardware used by WEL and NorthPower, could be supplied as a POTS line directly from the ONT or as a VoIP service to the ISP/VoIP provider's indoor hardware. There is still a place for naked broadband (ie not bundled with voice) where customers have their own VoIP provider or use voice over a different network, but users will assume that any primary voice service packaged with the broadband has enough backup of both power and SIP routing for a resilient emergency service. I mean "assume" because average users will not consider that phones stop when broadband goes down.

2.5Mbps CIR is high for a residential service, implying that a number of users on a chassis would be limited by its port density rather than the speed of its backhaul uplinks or the PON split ratio.

No word on pricing of dark fibre, or on whether any L2 carrier is planning a nationwide UFB service wholesaled to smaller ISPs yet.

Good to see Paul Spain is on the case! Keep it up Paul... Cool


Southern Cross approaching its useby date?  I thought they just extended the life to 2025 from 2020. 

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