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805 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 62

UberGroup

  Reply # 414204 7-Dec-2010 19:28 Send private message

*looks at NorthPower fibre link running into the house*

Where do I get my jetpack?

62 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 1

Subscriber

  Reply # 414209 7-Dec-2010 19:35 Send private message

stuzzo:
tombrownzz: Here are some things I want to know:

How is the fibre going to be laid? Micro trenching or digging up the footpath? If its digging up the footpath how am I going to drive my car from the road to my garage when the footpath is dug up and the concrete is drying? Will it be half of the driveway 1 day and half the next?

Is the fibre going to come into my property or do I have to pay extra to get the fibre from the footpath to my property?
?


By the time it get's to your place you'll be flying in a Jetpack. Don't worry about it.


Brilliant

1200 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 3

Trusted

  Reply # 414317 7-Dec-2010 22:05 Send private message

ockel:
networkn: How in the name of all that is holy can they offer tauranga this, and not the business hubs of NZ, IE Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch it first.


The JAFA in me says that you use the lesser valued areas as pawns to drive hard bargains on price and timing for the more valuable areas.Innocent

In reality it could be that Northpower and WEL made the best offer under the RFP's and advanced to negoitation on that basis.


I beg to differ about Auckland being well serviced. Telecom left the big city centers last for the VDSL/ADSL2 rollout, as it was more complex and they wanted to perfect the rollout on smaller towns.

For example, I live in the heart of Auckland (Parnell), we get 3 Megabits on ADSL1 and are (as is a lot of Auckland) last on the list of VDSL/ADSL2 cabinets to be rolled out in September 2011 - so it's entirely possible we will get ADSL2 when the first fibre optic cables are being connected into peoples homes in Tauranga.

I think ockel is right that there is a bit of hard bargaining and leaving the best sites to last, but also a bit easier to sort out the contracts for the small towns and if it goes to custard it's not a huge embarrassment.




Tyler - Parnell Geek - iPhone 3G - Lenovo X301 - Kaseya - Great Western Steak House, these are some of my favourite things.

50 posts

Geek


  Reply # 414387 8-Dec-2010 00:33 Send private message

Do most cities still have overhead power-poles? I know that Invercargill has had all its power and communications cabling underground for a decade now. This could be problematic.

338 posts

Ultimate Geek


  Reply # 414402 8-Dec-2010 07:48 Send private message

exportgoldman:
ockel:
networkn: How in the name of all that is holy can they offer tauranga this, and not the business hubs of NZ, IE Auckland, Wellington and Christchurch it first.


The JAFA in me says that you use the lesser valued areas as pawns to drive hard bargains on price and timing for the more valuable areas.Innocent

In reality it could be that Northpower and WEL made the best offer under the RFP's and advanced to negoitation on that basis.


I beg to differ about Auckland being well serviced. Telecom left the big city centers last for the VDSL/ADSL2 rollout, as it was more complex and they wanted to perfect the rollout on smaller towns.

For example, I live in the heart of Auckland (Parnell), we get 3 Megabits on ADSL1 and are (as is a lot of Auckland) last on the list of VDSL/ADSL2 cabinets to be rolled out in September 2011 - so it's entirely possible we will get ADSL2 when the first fibre optic cables are being connected into peoples homes in Tauranga.

I think ockel is right that there is a bit of hard bargaining and leaving the best sites to last, but also a bit easier to sort out the contracts for the small towns and if it goes to custard it's not a huge embarrassment.


Ironic that the claims that cabinetisation was accelerated in Auckland due to ULL competition thus reducing the addressable market for those that installed kit in local exchanges..... and then "Telecom left the big centers last".   Something doesnt quite gel here.

I recall that Pt Chev was the first cabinet installed - shorten the lengths and offer ADSL2+.  Big song and dance. 
But then I recall the lack of capacity in Paretai Drive and the hoo-haa associated with the affulent not being able to get broadband (but able to get a reporters attention).

338 posts

Ultimate Geek


  Reply # 414404 8-Dec-2010 07:51 Send private message

Richard7666: Do most cities still have overhead power-poles? I know that Invercargill has had all its power and communications cabling underground for a decade now. This could be problematic.


Where undergrounding has occurred then I imagine the winning bidder will use their ducting rather than add new overheads.  And where its still overhead they'll use the poles.  I would say subject to council approval but chances are they own the lines company and would approve such work.  But if it was Telstraclear, say in Auckland, then they'd probably decline the use of overhead cables.  /ooops.  They already did. 10 years ago.

134 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 414406 8-Dec-2010 07:54 Send private message

Well quite glad Tokoroa is going to be one of the first. like to see how the locals will treat this deal... 

So who is going to be the FIRST person to get this ? 

805 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 62

UberGroup

  Reply # 414423 8-Dec-2010 08:38 Send private message

There are already people on this, Northpower has a small but respectable fibre network in Whangarei already

19796 posts

Uber Geek
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Biddle Corp
Subscriber

  Reply # 414437 8-Dec-2010 09:04 Send private message

One thing that's been interesting has been the talk of "free installations".

There seems to be a lot of unanswered questions relating to this, so if people do know the answers I'd love to know.

Where will fibre be terminated? Initially it was going to be to the pole/kerb but there has since been talk in recent months of it being terminated at the demarc on the house. Doing this will require consent of the land owner which has caused big issues in Aussie with around 50% of people not giving permission in Tasmania.

What is considered to be a "free install"? If cable needs to be run to the house, either as an overhead drop or trench, an ONT needs to be installed, house wiring needs to be altered, a new router installed, and possibly a house alarm moved over to an IP adapter to ensure continuity of alarm monitoring. Who is going to pay for all of this?

534 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

  Reply # 414486 8-Dec-2010 10:26 Send private message

When they did the cable rollout in Brisbane, they just strung everything in the top of the powerhouse. One cable for telstra and one for optus above each other and terminated it there outside each house. When you had it put on they just strung an overhead cable from the box in the lines in the pole to your house that did Cable TV,Internet and telephone.

534 posts

Ultimate Geek

Trusted

  Reply # 414488 8-Dec-2010 10:27 Send private message

Strung everything in the top of the powerpoles I mean (iPhone changed it to powerhouse for some reason)

62 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 1

Subscriber

  Reply # 414503 8-Dec-2010 10:45 Send private message

sbiddle: One thing that's been interesting has been the talk of "free installations".

There seems to be a lot of unanswered questions relating to this, so if people do know the answers I'd love to know.

Where will fibre be terminated? Initially it was going to be to the pole/kerb but there has since been talk in recent months of it being terminated at the demarc on the house. Doing this will require consent of the land owner which has caused big issues in Aussie with around 50% of people not giving permission in Tasmania.

What is considered to be a "free install"? If cable needs to be run to the house, either as an overhead drop or trench, an ONT needs to be installed, house wiring needs to be altered, a new router installed, and possibly a house alarm moved over to an IP adapter to ensure continuity of alarm monitoring. Who is going to pay for all of this?


Free installation, which really means taxpayers are paying for the installation.  sbiddle I have heaps of questions as well. 

Does anyone know what it costs to use NorthPowers Fibre?  As this will be a good indication of the 'real' unsubsidised cost of fibre.

I know few years ago with CityLink in Wellington their cheapest was $300 plus data costs for a measly 5meg up and down.  (I just tried to get up dated pricing off their site but strangely enough it is down right now. So feel free to give updated pricing below if you know it, as I am going off memory)  Setup was around $500 if the fibre was in the building and much more if it ran past the building anywhere from $3000 - $10,000 depending on how far the fibre had to go to the building.

If these represent the real costs for fibre I am struggling to see how $1.5 billion is going to get fibre to most people in NZ.  My maths make it around 250,000 household/businesses/organisations.

Also, is this $1.5 billion going to be used to run fibre around the country to duplicate Telecom's current fibre network? According to the National Broadband map http://www.broadbandmap.govt.nz/map/ Telecom has fibre to every suburb in NZ.  To me it would be a waste to duplicate this resource but do we want to be in a natural monopoly setup again?

So many questions but I am sure we will find out the answers before long.

Also sbiddle logically speaking if you choose to cut the copper phone line to the building when you got fibre, it would make sense that you would have to wear the cost of changing to an IP alarm system.


5971 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 109

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  Reply # 414542 8-Dec-2010 11:13 Send private message

Slightly off topic, as has been mentioned in earlier posts, our current DSL offerings have a CIR of 48kb/s, with the current major upgrade to the DSL network via FTTN that provides 10Mb/s or more to 80% of homes, I guess the question has to be asked when can we expect similar contention ratios as being offered on the UFB, lets hope this competition puts pressure on existing delivery platforms.

It only takes a few moments to wander through the GZ Broadband thread to see the continuing complaints regards poor speeds from all ISPs to know that a mix of international speeds and poor in country transit speeds is catching up on such low contention ratio's, something most of us would happily pay an extra few $ per month to have fixed. With more and more content being cached onshore there is now no reason to hold back on national transit even if it did come at a small premium, or have a missed something.

Cyril

805 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 62

UberGroup

  Reply # 414547 8-Dec-2010 11:17 Send private message

You have 2 main ISP's on NP fibre right now www.xfnet.co.nz and www.ubergroup.co.nz

NorthPower wholesale 10mbit upto 100mbit for it's residential service right now so with xfnet you can get 5mbit 10gb with phone and ubergroup has 10mbit 10gb for $59

Whangarei's pricing will always be a bit higher than elsewhere due to the fact that backhauling gbit's of traffic to Auckland is not cheap

1912 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 456

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Spark NZ

  Reply # 414551 8-Dec-2010 11:23 Send private message

cyril7: Slightly off topic, as has been mentioned in earlier posts, our current DSL offerings have a CIR of 48kb/s, with the current major upgrade to the DSL network via FTTN that provides 10Mb/s or more to 80% of homes, I guess the question has to be asked when can we expect similar contention ratios as being offered on the UFB, lets hope this competition puts pressure on existing delivery platforms.

It only takes a few moments to wander through the GZ Broadband thread to see the continuing complaints regards poor speeds from all ISPs to know that a mix of international speeds and poor in country transit speeds is catching up on such low contention ratio's, something most of us would happily pay an extra few $ per month to have fixed. With more and more content being cached onshore there is now no reason to hold back on national transit even if it did come at a small premium, or have a missed something.

Cyril


A couple of corrections. The number (32, 45, 48) of kbps isn't strictly speaking a CIR, The number is (I believe, from public knowledge) used to calculate the aggregate capacity of ISP handovers, so the 'CIR' doesn't apply to individual subscribers.

Secondly, I dispute that "most of us" would happily pay a few extra $ to increase the international or other dimensioning levels. You would, I would, quite a few people that post regularly on GZ would as well... But 'most', in the context of allNZ retail BB users? I'm afraid not. People (the general population) expect the Internet to get cheaper and faster, it simply doesn't resonate with them that sometimes increasing the resources will result in an increased price to them - the impression is that because technology is advancing, ISP costs must be decreasing on a weekly basis.

So while a small number of users (that are affected by the dimensioning levels) may be happy to pay a few more bucks, unless everyone is happy to do so, it probably won't make a difference.

Don't get me wrong - I'd love uncontended 100mbit to my house, or even quadrupling the current backhaul and international contention - but I'm not expecting those upgrades to be free.

Finally, you're correct in the assertion that there's more content being hosted onshore, but it's still not a lot in comparison to the offshore traffic.... It IS moving in the right direction though.

Ask your ISP if there are products they can buy that allow them to specify how much national 'transit' they can use for BB subscribers, or at least products that have a MUCH higher level than they use currently. I suspect there are options that they are choosing not to take up.

Cheers - N



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