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  Reply # 481081 14-Jun-2011 16:19 Send private message

Even though your ideas are admirable (i.e. you are trying to come up with a solution to potential problems of wrongful accusations), the fundamental issue that should be addressed even before any of these weak minded laws come into effect is the issue of not being able to get 'legal' content in NZ.

It frustrates me to no end that I can't pay a reasonable price (i.e. not the extortionist prices through iTunes if, and when, they make content available for purchase/rent) for immediate download of high quality, current, and legal content.

I understand the issues around rights holders (i.e. TVNZ, Mediaworks) purchasing the rights for certain content, thereby making it unavailable to anyone in NZ until later on, but I believe that THIS is the exact problem that needs to be fixed.

Content rights/licensing, regional restrictions, DRM... etc are only hurting the media industry. They are going about it entirely the wrong way.



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  Reply # 481093 14-Jun-2011 16:56 Send private message

ScottStevensNZ: 


It is a single target, but that target is the government, so they may have a little more power to stop it happening, and punish those who do.

I think one US government agency called a cyber attack an act of war. 

So if an encrypted ID won't work, what will, to create individual accountability on the web and some identification that is a little more than an IP address.

I think the take away from this thread is that New Zealand - and by association, the world needs



  • Universal copyright bill, that is signed by a 'league of nations' to agree on specific copyright law, to allow them to consume content from any region. Potentially backed by the right of free speech.  Aimed at consumable media. Likely Impossible due to note below.

  • Soon after this comes into place, larger consequences for those who didn't pay for media, backed by the 'right to make a living', you are infringing on that right by pirating.

  • Accountability for actions on the web, how? Not sure...


One problem with the first point is I (and many other industry people) charge a lot more for an international usage license for my images, than I do a regional or national usage license because there is so much more the media company will get out of it.  If the show was broadcast in NZ it would cost them X, if the show was to be broadcast internationally it would cost them X+X, of course if they made more money by showing internationally, that may work, but i suspect many don't have the budget to be able to pay hundreds and thousands of dollars worth of licensing fees.




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  Reply # 481106 14-Jun-2011 17:24 Send private message

macuser: I think one US government agency called a cyber attack an act of war.?


Ooooh, i can play this game!

And if a government is at war with it's own people we call that a civil war. And the people who incite the civil war -- the Rights Holders -- are called traitors, and shot at dawn! Wheeeeeeeeee!

Your position is both hypocritical (as by your own admission you download) as well as hopeless (if you think piracy is bad now, wait till you succeed in tightening the screws). It's farcical.

For all they still could improve, the iTunes & Steam stores are the way of the future. They give people almost everything they want, when and where they want it, at a reasonable price, and they don't get in the way. That's why they are roaring success stories. Uncrackable IDs and government boogie-men have nothing to do with it.




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  Reply # 481114 14-Jun-2011 17:55 Send private message

---For all they still could improve, the iTunes & Steam stores are the way of the future. They give people almost everything they want, when and where they want it, at a reasonable price, and they don't get in the way.---

i thought the main issue for those anti the Act, is that there is much content you cannot get here, hence the need to download?

A suggestion. If there is content that you cannot get in NZ, you can download it without issue. How does that sound?

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  Reply # 481122 14-Jun-2011 18:08 Send private message

tdgeek:
A suggestion. If there is content that you cannot get in NZ, you can download it without issue. How does that sound?

I like your thinking there.

Maybe that could be the exact incentive that content providers need to get their business/distribution model in line with consumer demands.
If it isn't available to the general public, then you can't be prosecuted for downloading it.

Of course, how likely is it that this will happen?

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  Reply # 481124 14-Jun-2011 18:13 Send private message

I'd love if if I was able to pay for and download Game of Thrones as it airs on TV in the U.S. Sadly the only way to keep up to date with it is to pirate it.




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  Reply # 481146 14-Jun-2011 18:50 Send private message

dontpanic42:
tdgeek:
A suggestion. If there is content that you cannot get in NZ, you can download it without issue. How does that sound?

I like your thinking there.

Maybe that could be the exact incentive that content providers need to get their business/distribution model in line with consumer demands.
If it isn't available to the general public, then you can't be prosecuted for downloading it.

Of course, how likely is it that this will happen?


Yeah I thought the same but didn't bother presenting it as an argument. It clearly wasn't going to fly with the ZOMGPiracy is killing us all! crowd.




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  Reply # 481204 14-Jun-2011 21:39 Send private message

That kind of sensible policy wouldn't have a chance in hell of making into law in NZ with US copyright lobbyists practically writing our legistration these days.

http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20110501/00364014101/us-offered-to-write-new-zealands-three-strikes... 

Content owners have fought against every technological advance eg: the grammaphone, talking movies, radio, tv, photocopying, video recorders, cd burning, digital music and the internet... claiming every time it's the end of the world and no one will get paid etc.

In reality, the copyright holders ended up benefiting from increased distribution every time.

It's no different this time just look at Valve Steam (PC gaming) and Apple iTunes (music)!

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  Reply # 481211 14-Jun-2011 21:53 Send private message

That URL mentions not allowing exceptions, but not as relating to this thread. The URL cites exceptions as format-shifting and time-shifting

Format shifting is when you duplicate your purchased file to another format, i.e. a song off a music CD to an MP3. Or any other change of format for your own use.

Time Shifting is recording a broadcast, so that you can view it later, i.e. PVR, Tivo, MySky, etc

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  Reply # 481214 14-Jun-2011 21:59 Send private message

Look at the BPI's (British Phonographic Industry) stats for singles sales in 2009:

http://www.bpi.co.uk/press-area/news-amp3b-press-release/article/2009-is-record-year-for-uk-singles-...

Yeah all that file sharing is sure killing the music industry oh wait no it isn't...

There is not even a problem here that requires government regulation, it just requires slow moving industry to hurry and get on board with digital distribution.

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  Reply # 481218 14-Jun-2011 22:07 Send private message

tdgeek: That URL mentions not allowing exceptions, but not as relating to this thread. The URL cites exceptions as format-shifting and time-shifting

Format shifting is when you duplicate your purchased file to another format, i.e. a song off a music CD to an MP3. Or any other change of format for your own use.

Time Shifting is recording a broadcast, so that you can view it later, i.e. PVR, Tivo, MySky, etc


Yes it's quite sad NZ has worse fair use laws than the US... we are allowed to format shift audio but not a dvd or blueray.

Really the point is with the so many politicians being techological noobs and so much big money lobbying nothing good/sensible/practical is going to happen anytime soon. 

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  Reply # 481219 14-Jun-2011 22:08 Send private message

/Shrug... Vote pirate party?




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  Reply # 481222 14-Jun-2011 22:16 Send private message

---Yeah all that file sharing is sure killing the music industry oh wait no it isn't... ---

I think you must have misread it. It says the music sales are going well, due to the ability of users to buy singles, and of online stores. It then goes on to imply, despite illegal file sharing, and how it would be even better if filesharing was taken on by Govt. Ironically this is precisely what is happening.


?That singles have hit these heights while there are still more than a billion illegal downloads every year in the UK is testimony to the quality of releases this year and the vibrancy of the UK download market. Consumers are responding to the value and innovation offered by the legal services and these new figures show how the market could explode if Government acts to tackle illegal peer-to-peer filesharing.?


---we are allowed to format shift audio but not a dvd or blueray---

That is the best example you will see of Govt not understanding the technology. They allow a duplicate of music, why? So I can pop my audio CD onto my ipod as tracks as I bought the music. I buy a DVD or BR, I should be able to shift that onto a media player if I so choose for the same reasons.



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  Reply # 481223 14-Jun-2011 22:17 Send private message

I think that would work, as it could be justified as 'disallowing pirating material that is not available to buy is negative to free speech'.  Don't think it could ever be law though!

Still want people to have consequences for pirating material that is available in their region, and think the govt is best to do it.  It would mean copyright infringement being moved into the crimes act though?




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  Reply # 481227 14-Jun-2011 22:22 Send private message

tdgeek: ---Yeah all that file sharing is sure killing the music industry oh wait no it isn't... ---

I think you must have misread it. It says the music sales are going well, due to the ability of users to buy singles, and of online stores. It then goes on to imply, despite illegal file sharing, and how it would be even better if filesharing was taken on by Govt. Ironically this is precisely what is happening.


?That singles have hit these heights while there are still more than a billion illegal downloads every year in the UK is testimony to the quality of releases this year and the vibrancy of the UK download market. Consumers are responding to the value and innovation offered by the legal services and these new figures show how the market could explode if Government acts to tackle illegal peer-to-peer filesharing.?


---we are allowed to format shift audio but not a dvd or blueray---

That is the best example you will see of Govt not understanding the technology. They allow a duplicate of music, why? So I can pop my audio CD onto my ipod as tracks as I bought the music. I buy a DVD or BR, I should be able to shift that onto a media player if I so choose for the same reasons.


I think it was explained to me that you're allowed a backup, you're just not allowed to break the encryption on the disk, a CD doesn't have encryption, but a DVD and a Blu-Ray do.  (US Law anyway, NZ is stricter from what I understand)  

The end result doesn't matter though, as it means you can't legally back up your disk or format shift.  Although Blu-Rays that include a digital file copy is cool.




I've just launched a business in Auckland specialising in professional portraits for LinkedIn and company pages, check it out here - http://jsp.co.nz/ If you'd like to book one, mention your Geekzone username to get up to $80 off your individual portrait.

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