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Topic # 86721 12-Jul-2011 14:26 Send private message

Not sure if this is in the right place, but spotted this:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/digital-living/5272410/ISPs-to-charge-for-notices-under-Skynet-law



Internet service providers can now charge to go after copyright infringers under the controversial 'Skynet' law.

Commerce Minister Simon Power says ISPs can now charge right holders - such as musicians or artists whose believe their copyright has been breached - $25 to process an allegation.

The new Copyright (Infringing File Sharing) Amendment Act - christened 'Skynet' by opponents - comes into force on September 1. The three-strikes warning system aims to stamp out illegal file sharing.

ISPs will send warning notices to customers informing them they may have breached copyright. If offending persists the case will proceed to the Copyright Tribunal.

The application fee to take a claim to the Copyright Tribunal is set at $200.  

The law controversially allows district courts to suspend an internet account for up to six months. But this element of the legislation will only be brought into force if the Commerce Minister considers the three strike system is not working. A review will take place in 2013.

Cabinet decided to allow the $25 charge when considering technical regulations. Power initially proposed a $20 fee, but that was upped by another $5 when his proposal was put in front of the Cabinet.

"The Government decided that a fee of up to $25 fee was an appropriate compromise between what rights holders and the ISPs wanted,'' Power said.

"However, we will review that six months after the Act comes into effect to make sure it's at the right level.''

The regulations also lay out what information rights holders must provide to ISPs and the form of infringement notices.





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  Reply # 492469 12-Jul-2011 14:36 Send private message

that's good, although still too low IMO.

The amount of manual processes, checking, etc required will be hugely expensive - in the region of $100 I would think.

(the article says this, but just in case anyone is unsure, the charge will be to the rights holder, not to the person recieving the complaint i.e. if sony files a complaint to Vodafone, they will have to pay $Vodafone $25 per complaint.

Having said that, it probably still is high enough to dissuade the mass complaints that other nations have seen. Rights holders will only seek to make genuine complaints rather than spamming everyone o the hope of landing a fish

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  Reply # 492470 12-Jul-2011 14:40 Send private message

So to get this straight a rights holder will have to in effect fork out $225 per complaint to see it taken from notice to conviction? Sounds fair to me, high enough to stop the shotgun method atleast




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All comment's I make are my own personal opinion and do not in any way, shape or form reflect the views of current or former employers unless specifically stated 

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  Reply # 492486 12-Jul-2011 15:05 Send private message

Surely $25 would not not cover the admin costs involved in sending out letters, unless they subcontracted out the work overseas. Although I suppose it would depend on the quantity they have to send out.

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Master Geek


  Reply # 492595 12-Jul-2011 18:36 Send private message

So to get this straight a rights holder will have to in effect fork out $225 per complaint to see it taken from notice to conviction? Sounds fair to me, high enough to stop the shotgun method atleast


But this is less than the actual cost. Why should the ISP have to pay for this crap?

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  Reply # 492606 12-Jul-2011 18:55 Send private message

Is it really? I could automate the lookup and notice sending and so could most dev's in a ISP, The *AA sends you date and time and IP for most ISP's this would be a simple SQL lookup!




Most problems are the result of previous solutions...

All comment's I make are my own personal opinion and do not in any way, shape or form reflect the views of current or former employers unless specifically stated 

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Master Geek


  Reply # 492767 13-Jul-2011 09:34 Send private message

You're right that it should be one or two simple queries to look up the IP address - at least in my case it is!

However, if you look at the whole process......


  1. ISP gets the notice.  Is it an email?  Is it via a web service?  

  2. How do you tell it's genuine and that the sender will pay?

  3. The ISP must set up a billing relationship with the rights owner.

  4. When they start processing the notice, what if it's for a downstream ISP, or for example a franchise business that charges their branches? Are they an IPAP?

  5. Find the IP/Customer

  6. Decide if you're going to send them something or not and what you should reply to the rights owner (many many date/time calculations etc if you read the law).

  7. You must send the customer the notice the same way you send their bill, so this may involve letterhead paper/envelope/postage/time.

  8. The customer doesn't understand or and claims black and blue they don't download anything.  Do you now have to go through wireless security with them and also does your entire accounts and help team have to be experts on the law?  Perhaps instead of accepting the notice, they challenge it, you have to send that out to the rights owner.  Then you get a response back from the rights owner that may or may not accept the challenge.

  9. How do you reply to the rights owner?



By the time you analysed and automated this, there's at least a months solid programming work for me....

Imagine the time for doing all of this manually!

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 492788 13-Jul-2011 09:57 Send private message

Beccara: Is it really? I could automate the lookup and notice sending and so could most dev's in a ISP, The *AA sends you date and time and IP for most ISP's this would be a simple SQL lookup!


It's a bit more complicated than that, Radius logs don't generally contain CRM data and in some cases the ISP may need hop between multiple systems to get from IP/timestamp to actual usable customer record.
Also with the number of different inputs an ISP may have (Wholesale/LLU) the systems probably diverge a little more, so you might have multiple paths to map and follow.

You also need to reference any earlier notices for that Rights holder and make sure you are sending the right letter.

On top of that you then have the admin side of recording all the infringement details and tracking the on-notice period for each notice (could be multiple per customer at any one time) as well as handling the challenge response from a customer and Rights holder, and making sure you actually bill and collect fee's.

And the final cost, all those people who will not understand the process and ring your helpdesk as soon as they get the notice.

Not impossible to automate, but in no way simple either, and no provision to recover the costs of doing so.


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