Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.

View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9
194 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 37

Trusted

  Reply # 513498 29-Aug-2011 14:58 Send private message

Oh I don't know about that... the points of data they have to prove before an ISP will pass on the letter gives the ISP an opportunity NOT to hassle/annoy a customer. If they miss out on any particular point then the ISP rejects the notification and the rights holder is out $25 per notice.

The ISPs don't necessarily want to annoy customers on someone else's say-so... I know they get a bad rap for annoying customers most of the time, but they usually do value having customers and aren't keen to have this merry-go-round of churn that receiving these kinds of notices will bring.

I do agree that free wifi operators have some serious issues ahead of them, and that's a very bad thing given the state of the industry (just starting really in NZ) and how important internet access is becoming in NZ.

281 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 8


  Reply # 513502 29-Aug-2011 15:03 Send private message

PaulBrislen: They have to prove offending (to the IPAP) on 13 different points, right down to when the offending is supposed to have occurred (to the second).

I'm hoping this will stop too much nonsense, but given what's happened internationally with regard to copyright infringement (Google reports almost half the notices it receives are bogus) I'm concerned as well.


Nope, they don't need to prove anything to the IPAP, just create an accusation in the correct format, in fact the IPAP has no powers to challenge a Rights Holder's "honesty" under the new reg's, they have to take them at their word.

The only time a Rights holder will be required to actually provide evidence is when they take an alleged infringer to Tribunal, at which point they roll out the signed affidavit from their 3rd party "evidence" gatherer from the USA that the information they have provided is true and accurate etc.

The only deterrent to flooding IPAP's with vexatious claims is the $25 fee, and the Rights holder groups are going to be lobbying pretty hard to get that lowered at the 6 month review.

194 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 37

Trusted

  Reply # 513506 29-Aug-2011 15:12 Send private message

The Act is quite clear on this - the rights holder must provide certain information to the IPAP:

section four:

Rights owner notices
(1) Every rights owner notice provided to an IPAP must include
the following information about the rights owner who provides
the notice:
(a) the rights owner?s name:
(b) the rights owner?s contact details, which must include
an email address, telephone number, and physical address:
(c) if the rights owner does not have a physical address in
New Zealand, an address in New Zealand to which the
IPAP can send documents for the rights owner:
(d) if the rights owner is acting as an agent for a person
whose copyright is alleged to have been infringed, evidence
of the rights owner?s authority to act as agent for
that person.
(2) Every rights owner notice provided to an IPAP must?
(a) identify the IP address at which the infringements are
alleged to have occurred; and
(b) state the date on which the infringements are alleged to
have occurred at that IP address; and
(c) in relation to each copyright work in which copyright is
alleged to have been infringed,?
(i) give the name of the owner of copyright in the
work; and
(ii) give the name of the work, along with any unique
identifiers by which it can be identified; and
(iii) describe the type of work it is (in terms of section
14(1) of the Act); and
(iv) describe the restricted act or acts (in terms of
section 16(1) of the Act) by which copyright in
the work is alleged to have been infringed; and
(v) give the New Zealand date and time when the
alleged infringement occurred or commenced,
which must specify the hour, minute, and second;
and
(vi) identify the file sharing application or network
used in the alleged infringement.

So not only do they have to hand over the IP address allegedly offending, but they need to know what you've downloaded and at what time down to the second it was downloaded, plus what app you were using.

This isn't as simple as firing out thousands of notices in a fishing trip - they have to know a fair bit about your alleged activity before sending the notice to the IPAP.

If the information isn't complete, the IPAP can reject the notice.



780 posts

Ultimate Geek
Inactive user


  Reply # 513533 29-Aug-2011 16:04 Send private message

I just can't see anything here to stop malicious accusations.

You can invent all this stuff .  eg, i could say IP 202.202.178.1 was downloading 'Hurt Locker' NZ time 01.09.2011 08:08:01 using bittorrent.  The other information can be harvested from IMDB and the Act itself. 
 
Then, in another months time, I can say the same IP was downloading 'Star Wars' etc...

It is more of a problem if your ISP uses static IP's. 

Are there any penalties for rights holders making false accusations?




194 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 37

Trusted

  Reply # 513534 29-Aug-2011 16:07 Send private message

Invent away, but if the detail doesn't match what the IPAP sees on its logs then it can and will reject the notice.

659 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 26


  Reply # 513541 29-Aug-2011 16:39 Send private message

Can the isp look at what internet addresses at the date, time were being accessed to confirm it's not a bogus claim?

Otherwise i'm connected 24, 7 days as the tivo keeps it connected, only other way to prove it is false is if turn off internet connection and claim comes stating a time that wasn't logged on at.

281 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 8


  Reply # 513583 29-Aug-2011 18:09 Send private message

PaulBrislen: Invent away, but if the detail doesn't match what the IPAP sees on its logs then it can and will reject the notice.


Sorry Paul, but the only thing the IPAP needs to (or actually can) check is who was assigned the specific IP address used at that time, they won't check if they were actually downloading anything at all, or even if there was traffic running over their port.

I don't think the major Rights holder groups will actually do anything like this; it's pretty easy for them to harvest all the "legitimate" infringements they can afford to have processed, but it is a pretty glaring fault in the writing and application of the law to have such an unfair "guilty until proven innocent" construct.

It does open up questions about things like IP spoofing, lets say someone used your IP address to share a copyrighted file, you might get the notice but unless you are keeping extensive logs of your network activity, how are you going to prove it wasn't you?

How are you going to convince the Rights holder?
They can completely ignore any challenge and rule arbitrarily that they are right, and you are wrong without presenting any additional evidence themselves.

This thing has more holes in it than swiss-cheese, yet the IPAP's are still being forced to comply from Thursday...



3930 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 175

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 514289 31-Aug-2011 10:26 Send private message

Where is the "21 day" period defined? I can't see any reference to it in the regulations. Additionally, the regulations refer to sections 122C through 122F, and 122O, which do not appear in the Act. Can someone explain this to me?

53 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 1


  Reply # 514310 31-Aug-2011 10:47 Send private message

http://blog.greens.org.nz/2011/08/29/rightwing-resistance-salutes-skynet-law/

The new law will be shockingly easy to misuse. The ease of spoofing IP addresses with the guilt by accusation and burden of proof being on the defendant is just ripe for abuse.

2845 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 537

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 514340 31-Aug-2011 11:27 Send private message

Just saw this in the NZ Herald. Somewhat disingenuous given Labour introduced original S92A, and in any case only scraps the termination clause, not the law itself which is bad from start to finish.




iPad Air + iPhone 5S + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

1542 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 93

Subscriber

  Reply # 514354 31-Aug-2011 11:39 Send private message

Behodar: Where is the "21 day" period defined? I can't see any reference to it in the regulations. Additionally, the regulations refer to sections 122C through 122F, and 122O, which do not appear in the Act. Can someone explain this to me?


21 days is defined in section 122C(3)(a).

It's not actually set in stone though, the act says "An IPAP need not comply...." but they can if they want to.

To see the complete picture you need to look at the amendment act which has the sections you are missing.
http://legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2011/0011/latest/096be8ed806e2a43.pdf

3930 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 175

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 514363 31-Aug-2011 11:46 Send private message

Thanks for that, naturally it doesn't show up when you search for "copyright"...

2845 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 537

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 514368 31-Aug-2011 11:50 Send private message

Behodar: Thanks for that, naturally it doesn't show up when you search for "copyright"...


I found a copy in the basement with a torch, in a locked filing cabinet inside a disused toilet cubicle with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the leopard.'




iPad Air + iPhone 5S + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

1571 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 11

Subscriber

  Reply # 514383 31-Aug-2011 12:05 Send private message

SaltyNZ:
Behodar: Thanks for that, naturally it doesn't show up when you search for "copyright"...


I found a copy in the basement with a torch, in a locked filing cabinet inside a disused toilet cubicle with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the leopard.'


"But look, you found the notice didn't you?"

Wink



1441 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 42


  Reply # 514388 31-Aug-2011 12:10 Send private message

So...Are we going to get letters in the mail when we download movies/TV Shows?

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic




Twitter »
Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





Trending now »

Hot discussions in our forums right now:

Spark Socialiser
Created by freitasm, last reply by yitz on 21-Oct-2014 11:38 (18 replies)
Pages... 2


American legal jurisdiction in New Zealand
Created by ajobbins, last reply by Lyderies on 21-Oct-2014 13:18 (27 replies)
Pages... 2


Why would Suresignal calls be worse quality than non-Suresignal calls from the same location?
Created by Geektastic, last reply by froob on 21-Oct-2014 08:21 (41 replies)
Pages... 2 3


Picture resizing on the forum
Created by Jase2985, last reply by freitasm on 18-Oct-2014 13:32 (13 replies)

Internet question...
Created by Geektastic, last reply by Geektastic on 17-Oct-2014 22:59 (40 replies)
Pages... 2 3


Another Trade Me competitor: SellShed
Created by freitasm, last reply by macuser on 21-Oct-2014 11:51 (24 replies)
Pages... 2


Snap have failed our company!
Created by dafman, last reply by dafman on 21-Oct-2014 13:14 (11 replies)

Why do people keep thinking National are doing a great job?
Created by sxz, last reply by Geektastic on 20-Oct-2014 23:05 (156 replies)
Pages... 9 10 11



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.

Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.