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  Reply # 514496 31-Aug-2011 14:26 Send private message

hellonearthisman:
They can only send one notice at a time and only one per month.


Oh, nice, I overlooked that detail.

Scores are now -- 

Rights Holders: 1,000,000; Little Old Lady Accused of Downloading Porn: 1.




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  Reply # 514497 31-Aug-2011 14:28 Send private message

I know its revolutionary, but how about just stop infringing, then all these arguments are redundant.  I personally don't believe the little old lady that just updates her facebook page has much to worry about.  

Can't say I am a fan, but believe a lot of these arguments are just waffle and scaremongering (...hangs target on back!)

 




Artificial intelligence is no match, for natural stupidity



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  Reply # 514500 31-Aug-2011 14:31 Send private message

scuwp: I know its revolutionary, but how about just stop infringing, then all these arguments are redundant.



No, they're not. Have you missed the whole point of this discussion? You are stuck with the consequences if someone accuses you of infringement. You don't actually have to have infringed to be penalised. You just have to be unable to prove you didn't.

Furthermore, even if you can prove it wasn't you, but it was someone who used your connection, you're still responsible, because that's what the law says.




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  Reply # 514503 31-Aug-2011 14:37 Send private message

Surely we arent the first country in the world to do something like this? All I want to do is download TV Shows that either A) Dont get shown here or B) Come here months/years later.

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  Reply # 514504 31-Aug-2011 14:38 Send private message

SaltyNZ:
scuwp: I know its revolutionary, but how about just stop infringing, then all these arguments are redundant.



No, they're not. Have you missed the whole point of this discussion? You are stuck with the consequences if someone accuses you of infringement. You don't actually have to have infringed to be penalised. You just have to be unable to prove you didn't.

Furthermore, even if you can prove it wasn't you, but it was someone who used your connection, you're still responsible, because that's what the law says.


No I have not missed the point.  I just don't believe that the rights holders will just throw out notices willy nilly as if it's a lolly scramble like most seem to think.  The cost alone will preclude that happening.  

Like I said, I don't agree with the law, the 'guilty until proven innocent' implications, the way that IP addresses are identified...or any of that.   I just equally don't believe there will be this big free for all for no reason like most seem to think.

I normally stand to be corrected, but on this occasion I just hope I am right. 




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  Reply # 514507 31-Aug-2011 14:43 Send private message

scuwp:
I normally stand to be corrected, but on this occasion I just hope I am right. 


Well, I hope you're right too, but the overwhelming evidence from overseas suggests you won't be. The latest one is that they're accusing a blind man of downloading a porno, for goodness sake.

Still, at least that's slightly more plausible than accusing a printer of doing so.

Edit: gah! Fat fingers this afternoon...




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  Reply # 514510 31-Aug-2011 14:49 Send private message

scuwp:

I normally stand to be corrected, but on this occasion I just hope I am right. 

We can all hope... but good luck with that. (live in a flatting situation where I don't download anything)



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  Reply # 514512 31-Aug-2011 14:54 Send private message

scuwp:
SaltyNZ:
scuwp: I know its revolutionary, but how about just stop infringing, then all these arguments are redundant.



No, they're not. Have you missed the whole point of this discussion? You are stuck with the consequences if someone accuses you of infringement. You don't actually have to have infringed to be penalised. You just have to be unable to prove you didn't.

Furthermore, even if you can prove it wasn't you, but it was someone who used your connection, you're still responsible, because that's what the law says.


No I have not missed the point.  I just don't believe that the rights holders will just throw out notices willy nilly as if it's a lolly scramble like most seem to think.  The cost alone will preclude that happening.  

Like I said, I don't agree with the law, the 'guilty until proven innocent' implications, the way that IP addresses are identified...or any of that.   I just equally don't believe there will be this big free for all for no reason like most seem to think.

I normally stand to be corrected, but on this occasion I just hope I am right. 



I myself could record a song (bad though it may be), then, I can find out my friends IP address and lodge infringement notices against my friend just to annoy them.

The thing with bad laws, they can be abused.  

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  Reply # 514513 31-Aug-2011 14:54 Send private message

blakamin:
We can all hope... but good luck with that. (live in a flatting situation where I don't download anything)


Well, see, there's the other point: suppose you are in that situation and it's your name on the internet account. Your creepy flatmate secretly downloads infringing material in his bedroom.

However, YOU will be the one facing the consequences, not him, especially if he denies it. I guess you could launch some legal action to force him to disclose his computer etc. but a) good luck doing that in time to save the evidence and b) even if you win, you still lose.




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  Reply # 514515 31-Aug-2011 14:57 Send private message

SaltyNZ:
scuwp:
I normally stand to be corrected, but on this occasion I just hope I am right. 


Well, I hope you're right too, but the overwhelming evidence from overseas suggests you won't be. The latest one is that they're accusing a blind man of downloading a porno, for goodness sake.

Still, at least that's slightly more plausible than accusing a printer of doing so.

Edit: gah! Fat fingers this afternoon...


The difference between overseas and here is that overseas there has typically been no fee, or a nominal fee, chargeable to the ISP by the rights holder.

 

It’s pretty easy to spam when it costs you nothing per message. Not so easy when you have to pay $25 per message.

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  Reply # 514516 31-Aug-2011 14:57 Send private message

SaltyNZ:
scuwp:
I normally stand to be corrected, but on this occasion I just hope I am right. 


Well, I hope you're right too, but the overwhelming evidence from overseas suggests you won't be. The latest one is that they're accusing a blind man of downloading a porno, for goodness sake.

Still, at least that's slightly more plausible than accusing a printer of doing so.

Edit: gah! Fat fingers this afternoon...


The difference between overseas and here is that overseas there has typically been no fee, or a nominal fee, chargeable to the ISP by the rights holder.

 

It’s pretty easy to spam when it costs you nothing per message. Not so easy when you have to pay $25 per message.

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  Reply # 514517 31-Aug-2011 14:59 Send private message

Ironic double-post spam is ironic. :-)




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  Reply # 514536 31-Aug-2011 15:35 Send private message

wreck90:


I myself could record a song (bad though it may be), then, I can find out my friends IP address and lodge infringement notices against my friend just to annoy them.

The thing with bad laws, they can be abused.  


There is no test that the IProp actually exists when the ISPs accept complaint 1 and 2, so you can easily cause unwanted stress to kids in the house etc by firing a bogus complaint at the parents etc.

I expect to see this sort of thing to happen between kids that hate each other etc once they work out how easy it is, Find classmates IP address, make complaint to ISP.




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  Reply # 514540 31-Aug-2011 15:45 Send private message

Two points:

First, I think we are all taking shots in the dark until someone actually goes to court. A lot of the provisions of this law seem to be way too 'grey'.

The account holder being responsible for actions taken on their account for example seems to be running very close to what is acceptable in our legal tradition. Similar, but obviously not the same as, being responsible for what happens with your car and you having the responsibility to prove you were not driving.

Second, if my worst case scenario comes to pass I think the law will be changed very quickly. My worst case is that illegal media distribution becomes 'really' illegal, kind of like drugs. "Hot" discs sold at markets or out of the boots of cars or at pubs or similar. This trade would be run by 'real' criminals, yeah gangs, and would be a total disaster. For everybody.

While I hope this doesn't happen if it did it might just make the content industry ask if there is a better way than legislation.

Interesting times.




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  Reply # 514550 31-Aug-2011 15:57 Send private message

You dont go to court for this, just the BS tribunal. Thats half the problem with it. No representation, no lawyers etc.




Richard rich.ms

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