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  Reply # 714247 8-Nov-2012 16:52 Send private message

numfarr:They are just following the support script of what to do when it says "Custom" without putting much thought into it I think.


Possibly the person the OP is communicating with doesn't have the skills or knowledge to know any better? I presume they are a middleman, and not the tech itself. Very frustrating for the OP.

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  Reply # 714272 8-Nov-2012 17:35 Send private message

To be honest even if id flashed a custom rom on it, i'd still play hardball with them if its a hardware fault. I see my smartphone as a device like my computer. My computer comes preloaded with windows. I load linux. This should and does not void the warranty of it, and it certainly doesn't rights under the CGA. Where does one draw the line here? Its becoming more and more blurred as we have an entire spectrum from your custom desktop computers to tablet like laptops.

Some might disagree with this, and state that the warranty conditions say that modifying the system software voids the warranty. I wouldn't care. I'll let the CGA and disputes tribunal decide that, because that's where i'd happily take the issue to - if its not a fault caused by the change in software then it shouldn't be blamed on it - and for a system board failing i dont see the link. I dislike how the warranty process for phones is carried out vs other products.

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  Reply # 714286 8-Nov-2012 17:56 Send private message

It's a tricky question because it's not that difficult to hard-brick your phone, for example by flashing the wrong bootloaders to it. As far as I know the Samsung field service people don't have tools to fix this so it requires an expensive motherboard replacement. Obviously custom software flags are not going to show up in this case, but having it as a warranty condition creates a deterrent.

 Also you can create various hard-to-diagnose problems in a phone by flashing the wrong firmware or using rooted software that messes with the settings. If this requires support help, even if it's just to flash it back to factory software, then arguably you should be paying for it. But it seems a bit mean-spirited given the price of the S3.

gzt

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  Reply # 714322 8-Nov-2012 18:40 Send private message

You can ask Telecom to investigate if the phone has any other service history or has been connected to the network prior to your purchase.

Also ask Samsung if the phone has previously been serviced anywhere else or is in fact a refurbished phone - very unlikely here but carriers do sell refurbished phones overseas but they are identified as such. Run this by Telecom as well. I am sure each party will have some way to check it if you raise it.

Even so this is an unlikely explanation and incomplete. My guess is a factory refurbished phone would get both serial number and IMEI update and so you would have to consult a serious phone expert to independently discover if the phone had this history.

Examining NAND at low level might also give some clues but even more serious expertise required for that.

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  Reply # 714331 8-Nov-2012 19:09 Send private message

So turns out I may have a similar issue. Woke up this morning to find the phone stuck on the Samsung logo screen. Attempted to flash with Odin but nothing is working. Researching around, seems like it's a hardware fault.

My only issue is that I have rooted the phone, so I am not sure if it will be covered under warranty. Damn!




 

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  Reply # 714340 8-Nov-2012 19:14 Send private message

If I had to pay for servicing a handset and later found out the company admitting there is a known hardware fault I would be really mad.

It doesn't help that I never read good stuff about Telegistics :(




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  Reply # 714393 8-Nov-2012 21:20 Send private message

My brother just paid $250 insurance excess to have is SGSIII fixed, after it fell of the roof of his car onto the tarmac.

$130 to fix a phone of this value isnt so bad. However I agree you shouldn't have to pay & you should be covered in this case.

I wonder if you had contents insurance that it might cover this 'accident'?

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  Reply # 714595 9-Nov-2012 12:24 Send private message

numfarr:
nzgeek: I'm not sure how the service centre checks the firmware status of the phone
The text that they're talking about (Product name, Custom Binary Download, etc.) appears at the top of the download mode screen on the S3, before a new OS is downloaded:

<image> 

This is the phone's bootloader just reading the product name and flash status out of NAND. Wherever this info is stored is either corrupted or inaccessible. They are just following the support script of what to do when it says "Custom" without putting much thought into it I think.

It's been a while since I was in download mode, and forgot that this info was there! It probably doesn't help that I've never taken much notice of it when I have gone into download mode.

I think that this makes the case for the OP. You absolutely have to go into download mode in order to update the firmware on the phone. In other words, the technician would have seen the firmware info before they attempted to do the failed flash.

The general policy for cellphone repairers is that if the phone has had custom firmware installed then the warranty has been voided, and the customer has to pay for any work done. If the technician has to have seen the info before the failed flash, and it had showed custom firmware at that stage, why did the technician attempt the flash at all? They would know to stop there, as Samsung would not pay for the work to be done.

The fact that the technician tried to flash the phone indicates that the phone was showing genuine status at that point in time. If the status was good before the flash then it was good when the phone left the OP's hands. Any change to custom status can only have happened when the phone was with the service centre, and therefore not the OP's fault.

I don't see how the service centre could argue their way out of this one, short of saying that the technician "broke policy by proceeding."



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  Reply # 714665 9-Nov-2012 13:29 Send private message

The latest update:

I called and spoke to a person at the Telecom store where I purchased the phone.  The manager called me back and trotted out the same lines that Telegistics used - that the phone has been rooted so it's not covered by warranty.  I calmly tried to explain to her that any reasonable person would accept that there is a chance that a faulty piece of hardware like the main board could be causing incorrect information to be displayed and that the service technician should have noticed whether it was 'custom' or 'official' prior to flashing it.  I might as well have been talking to a wall as there was no talking sense into her.

I said I do not accept this position and said I would put it in writing and we left it at that.  She said that she would ring Telegistics (I'm not sure what for).

This whole situation is farcical.

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  Reply # 714668 9-Nov-2012 13:36 Send private message

nzgeek:
numfarr:
nzgeek: I'm not sure how the service centre checks the firmware status of the phone
The text that they're talking about (Product name, Custom Binary Download, etc.) appears at the top of the download mode screen on the S3, before a new OS is downloaded:

<image> 

This is the phone's bootloader just reading the product name and flash status out of NAND. Wherever this info is stored is either corrupted or inaccessible. They are just following the support script of what to do when it says "Custom" without putting much thought into it I think.

It's been a while since I was in download mode, and forgot that this info was there! It probably doesn't help that I've never taken much notice of it when I have gone into download mode.

I think that this makes the case for the OP. You absolutely have to go into download mode in order to update the firmware on the phone. In other words, the technician would have seen the firmware info before they attempted to do the failed flash.

The general policy for cellphone repairers is that if the phone has had custom firmware installed then the warranty has been voided, and the customer has to pay for any work done. If the technician has to have seen the info before the failed flash, and it had showed custom firmware at that stage, why did the technician attempt the flash at all? They would know to stop there, as Samsung would not pay for the work to be done.

The fact that the technician tried to flash the phone indicates that the phone was showing genuine status at that point in time. If the status was good before the flash then it was good when the phone left the OP's hands. Any change to custom status can only have happened when the phone was with the service centre, and therefore not the OP's fault.

I don't see how the service centre could argue their way out of this one, short of saying that the technician "broke policy by proceeding."



+1 on this, the technician should have stopped and did not proceed with flashing the phone once he saw the status of the phone the first time he/she assessed it.



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  Reply # 714669 9-Nov-2012 13:36 Send private message

nzgeek:
The general policy for cellphone repairers is that if the phone has had custom firmware installed then the warranty has been voided, and the customer has to pay for any work done. If the technician has to have seen the info before the failed flash, and it had showed custom firmware at that stage, why did the technician attempt the flash at all? They would know to stop there, as Samsung would not pay for the work to be done.



This is probably the best piece of advice in this entire thread so far. Push this issue with them and ask for a response.


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  Reply # 714671 9-Nov-2012 13:39 Send private message

I wouldn't have expected much from the manager of the Telecom store, they are considerably less technical than the people here I would imagine. She is acting on the information given to her by the service agent. I would proceed with putting it in writing and try to remain calm.

I am not also of the opinion that ANY reasonable person would know the main board could have caused the incorrect status, I would expect any reasonable technical person with smartphones should know it.



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  Reply # 714672 9-Nov-2012 13:40 Send private message

TimOB: The latest update:

I called and spoke to a person at the Telecom store where I purchased the phone.  The manager called me back and trotted out the same lines that Telegistics used - that the phone has been rooted so it's not covered by warranty.  I calmly tried to explain to her that any reasonable person would accept that there is a chance that a faulty piece of hardware like the main board could be causing incorrect information to be displayed and that the service technician should have noticed whether it was 'custom' or 'official' prior to flashing it.  I might as well have been talking to a wall as there was no talking sense into her.

I said I do not accept this position and said I would put it in writing and we left it at that.  She said that she would ring Telegistics (I'm not sure what for).

This whole situation is farcical.


Honestly someone working in a store wouldn't necessarily know anything technical like that, so they probably don't have a clue what you are talking about.
You should ask them for a deadlock number and take it to the telecommunications disputes tribunal, as it sounds like they have stonewalled you, as they aren't giving you any options. However using the TDR may take a long time, and as it is a consumer device, it should be handled quickly. So writing a letter that gives them a timeframe to resolve the problem, or say you will take them to the disputes tribunal. The problem is that you are on a service contract, so does that mean that your contract is still active, as how are you meant to use that contract without a phone?

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  Reply # 715131 10-Nov-2012 13:43 Send private message

The issue really comes down to whether you are lying or not. In effect, they are calling you out on that.

If you are not lying, the problem is theirs.

I would support you on your telling of the story so I wish you well, but a business that relies on calling its customers liars seems a poor one indeed.

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  Reply # 715138 10-Nov-2012 13:55 Send private message

I think to be fair there are some good points made on both sides, but overall I think people are too inclined to side with the consumer. The number of devices that end up rooted is significant now, and often the simplest explanation is the right one (If it looks rooted, the consumer likely rooted it) would be a fair way to proceed. The biggest point in your favour is actually one made by others above that once the tech saw it looked rooted, he should have stopped which he didn't. I think you will end up winning this, but I do think that people do test to get a little too "evil corporations out to screw the consumer".

You need to remain calm and also try to understand why the store is taking the stance they have and proceed to make your points in a sensible and calm manner.

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