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4 posts

Wannabe Geek


Topic # 63862 3-Jul-2010 20:15 Send private message

Hi guys,

There's lots of useful info on the forums here but I'm trying to get my head around a few *basic* questions re a planned structured cabling install as part of some upcoming renovations.

We have a 3-bedroom house and plan to run cat 5e cable to the three bedrooms, two cables to the kitchen/dining, two to the living room and two to the computer niche (9 all up).  Planning on putting standard RJ45 jack at all points.

What I'm unfamiliar with is how everything connects up at the hub.  Here are my specific questions:

1.  What exactly goes in to and out of the patch panel?  What to the patch cables connect across to, specifically?

2.  If we replace the copper cabling with cat 5e from the Telecom demarc point to somewhere near the hub, it should terminate with a jackpoint, right?  How does the cable connect from this jackpoint into the system itself?  Is it fairly straightforward to merge the cat 5 cable with the telecom box at the front of the house?

3.  What other gear would typically be placed in the vicinity of the patch panel (router etc) and how does this connect into the network.

Apologies for the noob questions but I'd really appreciate your input.  I'm keen as to do this as a DIY job (while the pros do all the other construction).

cheers,
Telf



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3943 posts

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  Reply # 347598 4-Jul-2010 01:03 Send private message

Have you had a read of the posts by sbiddle in his blog here on geekzone? He explains it all pretty well, with photos aswell.



4 posts

Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 347665 4-Jul-2010 13:06 Send private message

Yes - there's fantastic info there, but most of it fairly high-level,  If someone has 5 minutes to address the question in my first post that'd be greatly appreciated.

230 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 347670 4-Jul-2010 13:25 Send private message

Hi,

I just replaced the old phone cabling in our place with Cat5e and I was pretty happy with the results.  It was easy to connect the cat5 to the telecom line, once I worked out what the 2 wires coming into the house were with the help of people on this forum.  It took me longer to crawl through the ceiling cavity than it did to actually make the connection. 

I then ran the cat5 cable to a BT jackpoint which acts as the test point, then connected a ADSL master splitter to the same jack point and then from the ADSL splitter to a dedicated ADSL jackpoint etc.  I'm still deciding which patch panel to buy and once I get that the line from the filter will go straight to the patch panel.

Hope this helps ittle bit.



230 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 347683 4-Jul-2010 15:06 Send private message

With regards to your question about what goes where etc, from what I have learnt here this is my understanding (which may not be right of course)...





4 posts

Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 348546 6-Jul-2010 20:43 Send private message

Thanks a lot - very useful and much appreciated.

If anyone else can chip in can stoop to the level of answering these basic questions that'd be sweet.

321 posts

Ultimate Geek


  Reply # 348603 6-Jul-2010 23:34 Send private message

1.  What exactly goes in to and out of the patch panel?  What to the patch cables connect across to, specifically?


All the individual RJ45 jackpoints that you place around the house are connected via cat5e (or cat6) to the rear of the patch panel and are individually (and permanently) punched to a port.  ie. if you have 20 RJ45's around the house you will need a patch panel with at least 20 ports.  This patch panel is how you connect your phone and adsl to the various RJ45 jack that you have around your home. 

2.  If we replace the copper cabling with cat 5e from the Telecom demarc point to somewhere near the hub, it should terminate with a jackpoint, right?  How does the cable connect from this jackpoint into the system itself?  Is it fairly straightforward to merge the cat 5 cable with the telecom box at the front of the house?


After you run new cat5e from the ETP (demarc) to the your new 'hub' you need to install a test/isolation port and a master adsl filter. There are various ways of doing this.  I did it by purchasing a small distribution box (dist5c) made by a fellow Geekzone user, Cyril7, that combines the master adsl filter, the test port, provision for alarm bypass, and 4 or 5 telephone RJ45 ports.  Refer this old post for a picture of it (it has been improved slightly since this pic).  The dist5c routes the incoming phone line to the RJ45 phone ports and also to the adsl RJ45 port (via the filter).  

3.  What other gear would typically be placed in the vicinity of the patch panel (router etc) and how does this connect into the network.


At the patch panel location you should also have your adsl modem and ethernet switch.  I dont have a switch because my modem has 4 port switch included and I dont need more than 4 adsl ports at this point in time.  If you have a single port modem you will need a switch if you want adsl in more than one location in your house. 

Now to connect all the bits. Use patch cables to connect the telephone RJ45's on the dist5c to whatever ports on the patch panel you want telephone on.

A cable from the adsl RJ45 on the dist5c will patch to the incoming port on the modem.  If you have a modem with an inbuilt switch, then simpley use patch cables to patch the ports on the modem to the ports on the patch panel where you want adsl.  If you have a ethernet switch then connect the switch to the modem with a patch cable, then use patch cables to connect the switch ports to the ports on the patch panel.

Geez thats harder to explain than I thought.  Probably makes no sense to you.

I kept mine all tidy by using a 19" wall mount rack.  I got a lid that the modem sits on.

NB:  you will need power points at the location of the patch panel as the modem needs one and the switrch might as well, but keep power cables away from cat5e.  label both ends of the cables as you run them and then label the patch panel and the wall plates so you know where each port on the panel connects to.

Hope this helps. 

NB:  the picture that cldlr76 posted is also a perfectly acceptable way to do it also.  You just need to ensure that you get a patch panel with more ports than RJ45 jacks that you have around the house as some are used up when you punch the incoming phone down into them.  Also need to install a test point/isolation point before the master filter.





.....c'mon sucker lick my battery........
binary solo...0000110000110000111...

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  Reply # 349514 9-Jul-2010 14:30 Send private message

Telf: Hi guys,

There's lots of useful info on the forums here but I'm trying to get my head around a few *basic* questions re a planned structured cabling install as part of some upcoming renovations.

We have a 3-bedroom house and plan to run cat 5e cable to the three bedrooms, two cables to the kitchen/dining, two to the living room and two to the computer niche (9 all up).  Planning on putting standard RJ45 jack at all points.

What I'm unfamiliar with is how everything connects up at the hub.  Here are my specific questions:

1.  What exactly goes in to and out of the patch panel?  What to the patch cables connect across to, specifically?

2.  If we replace the copper cabling with cat 5e from the Telecom demarc point to somewhere near the hub, it should terminate with a jackpoint, right?  How does the cable connect from this jackpoint into the system itself?  Is it fairly straightforward to merge the cat 5 cable with the telecom box at the front of the house?

3.  What other gear would typically be placed in the vicinity of the patch panel (router etc) and how does this connect into the network.

Apologies for the noob questions but I'd really appreciate your input.  I'm keen as to do this as a DIY job (while the pros do all the other construction).

cheers,
Telf


You probably want 2 Cat5 cables to each bedroom since you likely need both phone and ethernet in each room. If you want to allow future upgrade to HDMI or whatever, you might need 2 or 3 cables going to the TV in addition to any phone/ethernet points around the living room. Keep in mind that the cabling is not a system as such, its just a way to link anything to any system without needing to rewire all the connections.

With that in mind, the patch panel, Telecom test jack, ADSL jack etc are all just terminations of the various cables. The telecom box terminates at a test point, probably an existing BT master jack, that you can mount in your distributor cabinet. Patch panels also do the same thing, except they terminate your internal house cabling. The ADSL splitter goes to both the phone service and an unfiltered ADSL jack (whether part of the patch panel or separate jack) to connect the modem.

Since all these cables just stop at the patch panel, you can connect or move them to whatever service as required. So if "1" on the patch panel connected to a room where Ethernet was needed, then a patch cable would run from the port to your modem.

A special case is the phone line, which you probably need to share on a "commoned" output but also requires a test point that can disconnect everything else for testing. You might decide that another patch panel is better than a telecom "common" strip, but a 6-way gang faceplate might hold enough jackpoints anyway (not as flash but cheaper). Connect a jumper wire across all the blue/white connectors and you have some commoned outlets. Now you simply need to patch a BT to RJ45 phone cable from the test point to your "common", decide where to connect phone outlets to the master filter, and you can patch any jackpoint to your new common to make it a phone outlet.

Actually I could help out for free if you are in Auckland, if I still have some spare time when you start the renovations.




Qualified in business, certified in fibre, stuck in copper, have to keep going  ^_^



4 posts

Wannabe Geek


Reply # 350026 11-Jul-2010 20:52 Send private message

Thanks fellas  Laughing

Webwat: very kind offer but we're in Palmy North.  Thanks though.

237 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 361569 2-Aug-2010 14:01 Send private message

Hey - where can we have a look at a dist5c box?
Going to get started in fitting out my home in the next couple of weeks and just doing an audit of all the gear I will need.

Cheers




this is a slap in the face!

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  Reply # 361600 2-Aug-2010 14:31 Send private message

Have a look at this site, they have distribution modules as well as patch panels that all match up and still allow space to get cabling around inside the box:

Clipsal.co.nz - StarServe - Home Networking Solutions

I prefer to terminate the Telecom line with a telepermit BT jack like cldlr76 did. That way telecom can still do a remote DC test if you are ever unsure about a fault, and there is never any doubt about what is plugged into the test point. The test point can be patched to a bunch of other jacks or a patch panel or a common strip.




Qualified in business, certified in fibre, stuck in copper, have to keep going  ^_^

237 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 361664 2-Aug-2010 15:33 Send private message

From what I can see this 
http://www.clipsal.co.nz/products/starserve/StarServe_Distribution_Units
 
is the same as the signet unit http://www.sigtech.co.nz/webapps/site/72000/105425/shopping/shopping-view.html?pid=466910 ?

Is that a correct assumption?

I will have the Telecom line terminate into one of the above devices, have my adsl router patched into the appropriate port on the above?

I would then have the adsl router patched directly into my 24 port switch, which will be patched to a 24 port patch panel witch cabling to the various rooms around the house?
 




this is a slap in the face!

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  Reply # 361694 2-Aug-2010 16:10 Send private message

Similar, but may be available from different suppliers. IMHO there should be no reason to see any punchdown blocks, and users should not have to find a punchdown tool to patch a service to a different jackpoint, so patch panels are better than phone distribution modules. However patch panels are a bit more expensive and to put the same phone onto each port requires wiring connecting each port in parallel from the telecom jack.

However you do it, design everything in a way that you can easily swap service to a VoIP ATA in future without rewiring everything, while possibly keeping the telecom line as a backup or using VoIP as a second line. You can get a 2-way phone splitter that plugs into the jack at each room if you need to add the second line later and find all the outlets taken by computers etc.




Qualified in business, certified in fibre, stuck in copper, have to keep going  ^_^

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  Reply # 361835 2-Aug-2010 19:17 Send private message

Hi, the Signet ST2206 is not in any way similar to the Clipsal unit, the ST2206 supports a central filter (correctly unlike other products) it also has a security loop and was designed to satisfy Telecoms (and the TCF) requirements which older phone modules like the Clipsal fail to address.

Webwat it is Telecoms preference that a punchdown block to terminate the inbound line is provided, also how would the only telecom approved central filters be fitted if a terminal block (yuck) or gas tight IDC header is not provided to terminate it.

Also the ST2206 can be easily reconfigured to allow for VOIP ATA and FTTH delivered POTs services, notes are provided with the unit (and on the ST site) to explain how that is achieved.

Cheers
Cyril

237 posts

Master Geek


  Reply # 362124 3-Aug-2010 09:50 Send private message

Thanks for that Web / Cyril

Cyril, is this setup going to work.

CLOUD > DMARC > ST555 > ST2206 > ROUTER > SWTICH > PATCH PANEL > NETWORK OUTLETS > PC/Laptop plugged into the outlets

Am i seeing this right?




this is a slap in the face!

44 posts

Geek


  Reply # 362694 3-Aug-2010 22:53 Send private message

The ST2206 works really well. have just installed along with a ST2000 box and 16 way patch panel. I've taken the advice of this forum and run out 2x CAT5e to each bedroom has the kids will have their own PCs soon. The ST2206 along with ADSL filter really tidies up all that messy wiring from the dmark that existed in my old 1930's house.

Have a question for Cyril: you stated in another forum to keep the CAT pairs twisted as much as possible, keep any untwist to a very minimum <5mm. Why?

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