Gutmann Reloaded and My Vista HD Fiasco
Unfortunately for Microsoft's Dave Marsh, Gutmann's read the official documents carefully. There are several areas such as the Hardware Functionality Scan (HFS), echo cancellation features and graphics hardware being used for video decoding where Marsh originally said one thing - which Gutmann picked up on when he wrote the paper - and another in the rebuttal.
So which is right? It's hard to say, and it looks like testing the different assertions is the only way forward.
On the question of CPU usage with DRM, I can be of some assistance to Peter and others curious about it. Here's a screenshot of Task Manager showing the Media Foundation Protected Pipeline EXE (lovely name) module in Vista, as I'm loading protected HD content:
It's chewing up some memory, not that much, but it doesn't register for CPU usage. The module isn't loaded when playing unprotected content.
I will do some more testing here once I get some fresh HD content. As it happens, I've got some older HD content, namely Coral Reef Adventure which was given to me last year. It has two Microsoft Windows High Definition format WMV files on the second disc, one in 1,280 by 720 resolution and another in 1,440 by 1080. The discs seem to have been made in 2003 and I put the second one into my Sony DVD drive (no, it's not HD-DVD or BluRay capable) under Vista to see what the film would look like.
At the first attempt, I got a black screen as the disc tries to autorun a start.hta file that Vista doesn't like. I don't know why Vista doesn't run it but neither does XP so... straight onto the WMV files I go, and click on the 720 resolution one. Windows Media Player 11 starts up, and I get the Media Usage Rights Acquisition dialog:
Ahhh... but the disc is already in the drive? I click on the "1. licenseserver.com" button to refresh, but no MUR is Acquired by WMP11. The same happens when I try to run the 1080 file as well - I can't get beyond the Media Usage Rights Acquisition dialog. If I try to play the disc with PowerDVD, I get a static screen telling me the content is in Windows Media HD, and that I should... insert the disc into the drive. Right.
Thinking I may have to play the file from elsewhere but have the disc in the drive, I copy both the WMV files to my hard drive and try to run them from there. No luck, the process still gets stuck on the MURA dialog. The Synccast.com site linked to in the dialog provides no help so I check the properties of the WMV file, to see if there's any further information about the license:
Hmm, nothing at all? Surely there should be something telling me what the terms of the license are?Then I try the first disc, with the standard resolution DVD, just to make sure that playback is actually working on my Vista installation. Immediately, I slam into the idiotic DVD regional content crapola:
Arrrgh. Time to give up with Vista and try XP again. I click on the 1080 WMV file, the MURA dialog pops up... nothing happens. A case of broken DRM preventing me from watching the content then? As a last effort, I take the disc out, check it isn't scratched or damaged otherwise, and put it back in. This time both the 720 and 1080 files run and I get to see coral seas in glorious colour (HD video is pretty spectacular).
XP played back the HD content, protected by Microsoft's own DRM but Vista didn't. It's just the one film so this isn't conclusive by any means, but it is disappointing nevertheless. However, the DRM disappointment extended to XP as well. The properties for the film (visible when it's playing) say this about the Media Usage Rights:
Hold on, so in just over a week's time I can't play the file any more? And, I can't back up the MURs for it either. Excellent illustration of the evils of DRM, that.
Tag(s):
Other related posts:
Today’s incomprehensible Windows security warning
Today's strange Internet Explorer 8 error message
Microsoft takes the wind out of Windows 7's sails
Comment by bradstewart, on 26-JAN-2007 17:22
I think you are missing the point Grant. Its not Microsoft who put controls on the files. It's the content creators. Microsoft are just enforcing them.
Sure MSFT aren't entirely blameless in the DRM nonsense but the real problem lies with the recording industry and their inability to adapt properly to the internet.
There are much better ways to approach the issue than in this reactionary ways they have so far.
Comment by Grant17, on 26-JAN-2007 17:59
Yes I agree with you 100% Brad. It's the recording industry who are the villains here. The way I worded my criticism gave the wrong impression. There are 2 issues here:
1) The rights & wrongs of DRM (a whole separate -- HUGE -- issue all on its own).
2) Whether MSFT's implementation of DRM allows you to do the things you would reasonably expect with legitimately purchased material.
It's the second issue I am more concerned with:
==> Having paid the dosh for a legit HD DVD you would expect it to play correctly with MSFT's brand-new O/S which has gone through an unprecedented amount of pre-release testing.
I know nothing's ever perfect in this world (especially software), but is it too much to expect that an HD DVD should play correctly out of the box?
There's no point crying over spilt milk I guess, MSFT will get this sorted and hopefully soon!
Comment by godzonekid, on 26-JAN-2007 19:15
Hmmm, we have a problem (apologies to the astronaut who used this phrase to NASA control). You see, in lil ol' New Zealand, by law, a device must be able to play discs bought legally anywhere in the world. This is going to run foul of the Commerce Commission and Microsoft will be done in court for this, for sure. Ah, that'll be nice eh?
Comment by freitasm, on 26-JAN-2007 19:29
Which law is this? If that's the case, all those DVD players that are not available as region free on the shelves are illegal. Quote please? Link please?
Comment by cokemaster, on 26-JAN-2007 19:35
The whole DRM schemes smacks of recording/movie industries going on powertrips and treating their customers like criminals.
DRM only hurts the customers (although it may discourage casual piracy) as hardcore 'pirates' can and will get around copy protections and copy non-DRM'ed files.
Though in saying that, Microsoft don't really come across as the most customer friendly either - marketing their 'Plays For Sure' format as a more accepted cross player DRM platform they stab customers in the back by releasing a player that breaks off that standard.
Due to DRM limitations - one is faced with either reripping their music to CD and back (if they are allowed), or repurchasing their music. This is true when people buy Ipods or shift from them as well.
Hardware companies are happy to go along with DRM implementations. Implementation of DRM means that customers will need to 'upgrade' their hardware, screens, speakers etc. The more the merrier... with the DRM implementation costs being passed onto the customer.
So we have this nice little circle: Recording/Movie studios - win because people need to repurchase songs, movies for different devices... or when license files go corrupt, Hardware companies - users are forced to upgrade their hardware (even if its capable but not capable of the DRM)Customers - restricted, have to repurchase hardware, locked into hardware, tricked like criminals.
Comment by chinahengst, on 27-JAN-2007 10:10
Go get a mac, life is too short to waste time on trying to get things to work on a windows pc.
Comment by Dan, on 27-JAN-2007 12:27
Well I wasn't happy with Vista's 11GB install and all the licensing rubbish, so I flagged it all and just installed Ubuntu, which I've been using ever since and its ideal.
D
Comment by bradstewart, on 27-JAN-2007 13:15
This what you are looking for?
http://www.pcgear.co.nz/customer/home.php?cat=2340
Comment by freitasm, on 27-JAN-2007 15:22
Get a Mac? Goodness sake, don't you know iTunes and the iPod are full of DRM stuff? People dream...
Comment by bradstewart, on 27-JAN-2007 22:00
Of course to the zealot their supported system is flawless. But everyone knows that Mac is just as bad if not worse than Windows when it comes to DRM.
The sooner the two companies ditch this DRM nonsense the better for everyone
Comment by cokemaster, on 27-JAN-2007 22:54
Agreed.
However one must point out that many customers who have used Microsoft's Plays for Sure DRM'ed music stores must be feeling a tad annoyed when the Microsoft's own player (the Zune) won't run their 'plays for safe' music.
Plays for sure indeed.
Comment by ascroft, on 28-JAN-2007 07:52
Just waiting for China to sort this out - their copyright views seem somewhat less 'rigid' shall we say and I think we will all benefit from that. If Vista is too tight, even 'I' will consider Linux, but rather concerned if the underlying hardware is crippled. Damn them!! :-)
Comment by freitasm, on 28-JAN-2007 11:33
Nor would a Linux distro/*BSD, not without peeling off the DRM from the film first somehow.
Which leads again to show that it's more of a problem with content distributors than the technology developers.
Comment by Nigel Parker, on 28-JAN-2007 14:24
I can't believe I've never tried this before!
With all this talk I had to try playing a 1,440 by 1080 WMV myself.
What did I pick? The Living Sea - (yeah I got the trailer internally as part of a WPF/E demo don't ask for a copy :)
Oh My God, That looks good!
My setup is that I have a computer in the office running vista, I have two DVI outputs from my video card. One runs to a 19 inch monitor in the office the other to my 30 inch JVC HDMI LCD TV in the lounge.
At the TV I don't use the HDMI input (I don't have any need for it). I run a DVI cable under the house and convert it to XVGA (1024x768) at the TV.
Oh yeah and what about that mfpmp.exe service?
~ 38MB & 15% processor while playing. Hang on that is the same memory footprint as itunes playing on my Vista box ;)
Comment by Nigel Parker, on 29-JAN-2007 08:25
"How far can you extend DVI cable? Presumably much further than VGA?"
I'm not sure the maximum, the cables I have are 15 or 20 metres I can't remember which... You can get Coaxial Shielded VGA Extension Cable up to 50 metres and Fiber Optic DVI cable up to 100 meters.
Comment by Anthony, on 1-FEB-2007 15:23
I would question the source of your DVD if it states it is region 4. Lots of pirated DVDs come from the middle east.
Comment by Spacefuzz, on 9-FEB-2007 05:50
Wait a minute...just curious about something. You say you inserted the second DVD disc to play the HD video(s). Is the MURA request asking you to insert Disc 1 for license verification (to prove that you actually own the DVD, and not just running a copy of the WMV file)? If so, it would make sense that the request to insert Disc 1 would "license" you to play the WMV for two weeks, presumably without having to "reverify" your authorization by reinserting Disc 1 during that period.
Comment by unicynic, on 12-FEB-2007 02:03
Well... just another case of arrogant miseducated Americans who think that their way of doing things are the best.. again...
Resulting in the WHOLE WORLD having DRM trouble because Americans keep on voting stupid people to represent them in their government.
DRM, war, famine, worldwide terror, global warming, drug-only cures... I can go on and on and on and on and on.
The world will be (was) a better place without the USA - the source of all evil and stupendous stupidity.
I think the US purposely miseducate the people so they'll keep on voting stupid, also miseducated, people that keep on coming with stupid, moronic, miseducated policies - all without any regards on the effect on the whole world, assuming that they do know that the US is only 20% of the world and NOT the whole world.
... then again, most Americans I know don't really know that US is 'NOT' the world.. not even after knowing that there's such a thing as land beyond the sea.
Stupidity, redefined.
ps - please take this as more 'cynical' than direct offense. I do like most Americans I know, or rather, who know me - they know there's a World out there.
Comment by Aeronomer, on 20-FEB-2007 00:24
Yeah, unicynic. And I suspect your attitude is why so many Americans could give two craps about the rest of the world. Why waste time being concerned with people who freaking despise us anyway? It goes both ways.
Comment by Morghan, on 20-FEB-2007 19:39
just got done reading this and thought it was worth sharing.
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html
I just hope that the world doesn't start to assume all of us are such morons just because we live over here. Of course I'm the type who will pass up buying the computer I want if their webpage doesn't render properly in all of my browsers. I won't touch Microsoft products, been using Slackware for a while now and couldn't be happier. Unfortunatly it looks like Microsoft is attempting to force their paranoia and idiocy on hardware manufacturers so pretty soon I won't be able to get new hardware that's worth a damn anymore.
Comment by chris, on 27-MAR-2007 02:53
wow, i stumbled across this page while doing some research on vista, mainly looking for good reasons why my friends shouldn't upgrade to it. but i just have to comment on some bits of what unicynic said.
"DRM, war, famine, worldwide terror, global warming, drug-only cures... I can go on and on and on and on and on."
i just gotta take that apart and look at it again.
DRM. well, i'm american, and while i can't vouch for every other person living in this country, i can personally assure everyone that i have never written any drm code. they never even asked me to be on the developement team.
war. did we invent that? are we the only ones who get into fights?
famine. are we the only ones who eat?
worldwide terror. we're what, all terrorists now?
global warming. is this the only country that uses hair spray?
drug-only cures. i don't even know what that means. did we invent drugs or something.
perhaps that means i am uneducated, as you say.
personally, i think the drm stuff is crud. does more harm than good. but it was thought up by a few people with some power. and it was a dumb idea. but that happens whenever somebody with some power gets a dumb idea. history is riddled with those occasions. and it always ends up in somebody suffering. this concept was around way before the usa was. so was war, terrorism, drugs, you name it.
and the very concept of trying to lay the blame of any of these things completely on the usa is completely silly. what do you think an american is anyway? an "actual american" would be a native indian wouldn't it? because everybody else that's here either came from another contry, or was born of people who did. i live in a pretty small town. about 12,000 people. we have people from loas, from china, from japan, mexico, ireland, germany, africa, england, australia you name it. we even have some native americans, and a french lady who speaks no english whatsoever. so who exactly are you blaming? we also have all types of religions, and it's a pretty peaceful town.
pretty much every town and city here has a similar assortment of people from all over the world.
i'm further mistified by your other statement.
"I do like most Americans I know, or rather, who know me - they know there's a World out there."
that's nice. have you told them you blame them for all the world's problems?
there are so many things wrong in all you said it boggles my mind. i wonder what land you live in that is totally devoid of guilt. everybody there must be very smart, have no food, use no hairspray, don't have wars, and don't drive cars.
at any rate, microsoft is one company. out of a world of companies. i have no reason to defend them, as they generally tend to irritate me. but seriously, why doesn't some company from your country, whatever that is, just make it's own OS that doesn't use drm. is it not enough that you want to blame us for war, terror, famine, and all the rest, but you also want us to make you an operating system?
course, if you did make one, and it was crappy, then i guess you'd have to blame yourself for a change.
ah, and don't worry, i haven't taken any offense:) lol
Comment by drmdestroyer, on 21-APR-2007 02:25
Beats me how this evolved into a "hate American" discussion, but I bet the guy writing comments is an American and just trying to get you all upset. Ignore him and he'll go away.
Guttman is right on his articles. I read about DRM's on other sites and experienced them first hand using iTunes and Windows Media Player. Most consumers won't tolerate it in full force.
The easiest way to avoid DRM's is by not supporting companies that support them. In Windows, don't use Media player 11. Winamp and other free alternatives work well. It's time to stop just talking about DRMs. Attack them by not supporting them. Don't support the big companies that try and make you tolerate them. If DRM is involved, you don't need them!
I support companies that don't use DRM technology in hopes that criminal organizations like the RIAA and MPAA will stop trying to rip us off.
Comment by ekulretlas, on 31-MAY-2007 00:50
I agree with everyone's view on microsucks and this new DRM development, I can understand how companies would like to protect their intellectual property. But what they don't realise is that all this money they spend on protection from a few they could be spending on providing a service that customers would want to pay for. I can understand that the DRM would be handy for use in audio/video previews. However the companies who use it in products that they sell to paying customers, well that just makes you think, bugger this what am i paying for? or are they trying to down grade the lifespan of digital video/audio to that of a cassette tape 1-3 years.
Just cant think about what they are trying to achieve, control over the people who are doing the right thing. I remember microsoft trying to implement something similar where you store your data and files on their server and a pay per use/print for office(word, excel, etc). Then all the big businesses retorted and said not an option, the idea died over night.
Comment by Pecos Bill, on 12-SEP-2007 07:38
Seriously, go read:
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html
Then tell me it's poor Microsoft suffering under content owners. Bullpuckey. Microsoft was more than happy to make that system so they can entrench you further and lock you in. They just want you to think they had no say. Apple pushed back on RIAA companies and got something reasonable enough out of them -- for music. Alas, they lost the battle when it came to ringtones IF they even tried to fight. I hope to hear more on why they didn't push back more or if they even did. I presume they didn't because ringtone sales are the last significant profit center the RIAA corps have as they continue their death spiral.
Comment by Link6746, on 11-MAR-2008 14:41
Wow. you want to know the worst part? I'm a gamer, and vista is being forced on us, and has been for a while. as a result, there are now almost zero places in the retail world to order computers without the vista virus.
I'm going to see if I can order something running XP from HP (Getting a new laptop on birthday). I'm going to avoid vista like the plague until lawsuits force microsoft to get rid of this consumer-abusing DRM bullshit.
What I find the worst is that hardware manufacturers could easily boycott vista all at once. the consumer may be harmed slightly at first, but then us buyers would have to deal with only 10% of this bullshit.
Comment by drug rehab center, on 19-FEB-2009 07:33
You should have expected to see such a reaction of you Vista. Anyway, as far as I know there are certain methods to make things work and escape from this awful situation.
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Comment by Grant17, on 26-JAN-2007 16:54
This sort of crap is enough to make you give up on legitimately buying anything and instead just download whatever you want via the various Bit Torrent services.
If Microsoft are going to make it this hard/restrictive for people who have paid for genuine DVDs, it just makes a mockery of the whole DRM idea.
Best to wait for a $50 Chinese-made HD DVD player to appear as someone else already suggested...
To have such fundamental problems playing an HD DVD at this late stage is hugely disappointing considering the unprecedented effort that has gone into Beta Testing of Vista.