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195 posts

Master Geek


#196760 11-Jun-2016 19:52
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Finally succumbed and had the new sky box installed today. Not without incident, ondemand still not working as the tech couldn't get it to connect to the Internet, and it's still not as they said they'd 'call me'. Sorry that was an aside.

Now trying to get it connected to the media pc so can start recording (as per the old box which I've been doing for years). I can connect via the composite out rca connections and get analog out. However I've now got the HD ticket and am wondering how I can get an HD digital signal out and into a DVB-T capture card maybe??

Would I need to split the hdmi out, given I'd like to keep the hdmi from the sky box connected directly to the TV for direct pass through for watching at times as well?

Any ideas greatly appreciated.

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2493 posts

Uber Geek

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  #1570162 11-Jun-2016 19:58
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Run cable to connect to Internet. As for HDMI to DVB-T, forget it unless you have a spare $1K or so.





Spark FibreMAX using Mikrotik CCR1009-8G-1S-1S+. UAP, UAP AC Pro, UAP AC Pro Mesh, Apple TV 4, Apple TV 4K, iPad Air 1, iPhone 6s, VodaTV Gen 2. If it doesn't move then it's data cabled.




195 posts

Master Geek


  #1570166 11-Jun-2016 20:20
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Spyware:

Run cable to connect to Internet. As for HDMI to DVB-T, forget it unless you have a spare $1K or so.



Any other way to record the HD with a capture card then?

 
 
 
 


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Uber Geek

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  #1570168 11-Jun-2016 20:21
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Nope, other than variations on the theme and not converting to DVB-T, hardware still costs.





Spark FibreMAX using Mikrotik CCR1009-8G-1S-1S+. UAP, UAP AC Pro, UAP AC Pro Mesh, Apple TV 4, Apple TV 4K, iPad Air 1, iPhone 6s, VodaTV Gen 2. If it doesn't move then it's data cabled.


2672 posts

Uber Geek


  #1570178 11-Jun-2016 20:46
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Spyware:

 

Nope, other than variations on the theme and not converting to DVB-T, hardware still costs.

 

 

But it doesn't cost that much in the scheme of things. Certainly not the $1K you quoted for the other option.

 

If the OP already has the media PC set up then a good HD capture device is circa $200-300 landed, and Hauppauge seem to make some pretty well regarded units. A generic splitter that will enable you to connect the set top box to both the TV and the capture solution runs to about $50. So circa $350 all up. As well as capturing, it will let you do other neat things, like live-streaming the Sky boxes output across your LAN to other rooms etc.

 

The fly in the ointment, which may or may not concern you, is that depending on the circumstances (whether you are recording or transferring, and/or whether your use is specified as an exemption etc) capping may (or may) not breach the copyright act. The same way transferring a CD to an iPod did before they made changes to legalise this for audio sources.


156 posts

Master Geek


  #1570196 11-Jun-2016 21:07
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I'm not 100% sure but one can assume that Sky is using HDCP on the HDMI port of the sky boxes so I'd check whether the capture card you end up buying if you buy one supports HDCP. Most Elgato ones (the Game Capture ones at least) don't support HDCP unless you use an HDCP protection stripper thing, this is the only one i found https://www.amazon.com/ViewHD-Powered-Splitter-1080P-Model/dp/B004F9LVXC?ie=UTF8&tag=hotoge-20 but yeah if you dont want to do that, you're stuck with RCA my friend.


Devastation by stupidity
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Uber Geek

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  #1570209 11-Jun-2016 21:25
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I use a cheap Chinese splitter with HD PVR2. Nearly all Chinese devices that pass through HDMI also strip out the copy protection. The Haupauge records it in high definition. Maybe $200-$250 total cost, most of that for the HD PVR2.

 

 





I don't think there is ever a bad time to talk about how absurd war is, how old men make decisions and young people die. - George Clooney
 


543 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #1570249 11-Jun-2016 23:07
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PSlover14:

 

I'm not 100% sure but one can assume that Sky is using HDCP on the HDMI port of the sky boxes so I'd check whether the capture card you end up buying if you buy one supports HDCP. Most Elgato ones (the Game Capture ones at least) don't support HDCP unless you use an HDCP protection stripper thing, this is the only one i found https://www.amazon.com/ViewHD-Powered-Splitter-1080P-Model/dp/B004F9LVXC?ie=UTF8&tag=hotoge-20 but yeah if you dont want to do that, you're stuck with RCA my friend.

 

 

When I asked them, Sky told me that they do not enforce HDCP on their boxes.  There are plenty of older digital TVs around in NZ that do not do HDCP, so they would be foolish to require it.

 

The other option for recording Sky is to do it yourself using the card to decrypt in a PC.  The hardware required is a card reader and DVB-S/S2 tuners.  That works for HD also, but you do need DVB-S2 tuners for that.


 
 
 
 


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Uber Geek


  #1570568 12-Jun-2016 17:01
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fe31nz:

 

When I asked them, Sky told me that they do not enforce HDCP on their boxes.  There are plenty of older digital TVs around in NZ that do not do HDCP, so they would be foolish to require it.

 

 

Interesting .... they told me the opposite. So they are giving incorrect information to one of us.

 

I don't have the new Sky box yet. I have a Hauppauge HD PVR2 which I'm planning to use with it when I get one, assuming I actually keep Sky.

 

I have also acquired one of the ViewHD splitters, so hopefully that will deal with any HDCP.


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  #1570576 12-Jun-2016 17:24
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Last I tried it was not even possible to get HDMI SD out of a sky box without HDCP removal. HDMI splitter and a game capture device will be the easiest way.

 

I have used one of these to record sky directly to a USB stick via a HDMI splitter, also record content off a friends apple TV thru the same splitter, and also a chromecasts output.

 

http://www.aliexpress.com/item/HD-Game-Video-Capture-1080P-HDMI-Recorder-Box-Into-USB-Disk-SD-Card-For-WII-u/32635526831.html

 

There are USB connected capture solutions available for not too much more, even some of the boxes from PB tech will do it when behind a friendly HDMI splitter.

 

Just watch if you get one with hardware encode on the box or not, the thing is with game capture you are usually overlaying a facecam etc to the image before sending out, so there is no need for a hardware encoder. Older boxes have one because that makes for less CPU work, but since the graphics card is encoding anyway to stream there is no need for it on most boxes.

 

No graphics card on a capture box or card with no encoder means CPU based recording which will be a very unhappy experiance.

 

Also dont bother finding a 1080p 60 one since skys content is all 1080i.





Richard rich.ms



195 posts

Master Geek


  #1570660 12-Jun-2016 20:06
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Many thanks everyone!! Lots of good info here... though seems like we have a split as to whether sky enforces HDCP?!

The HDPVR2 looks like a good option, though looking around I could also get a Hauppauge Colossus pci-e card.... assuming the slot is free. Need to check that. Does the HDPVR2 offer any advantages over the Colossus? I can't see anything.

I'm heading to the states in a few weeks. Looks like if I can get one if the ViewHD splitters, and an HD capture device and I should be away! Actually that begs another question... if I get either of the HD devices in the US will that cause a problem at all? I assume it might be a bit cheaper but will check.

543 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #1570711 12-Jun-2016 20:54
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mattyb: Many thanks everyone!! Lots of good info here... though seems like we have a split as to whether sky enforces HDCP?!

The HDPVR2 looks like a good option, though looking around I could also get a Hauppauge Colossus pci-e card.... assuming the slot is free. Need to check that. Does the HDPVR2 offer any advantages over the Colossus? I can't see anything.

I'm heading to the states in a few weeks. Looks like if I can get one if the ViewHD splitters, and an HD capture device and I should be away! Actually that begs another question... if I get either of the HD devices in the US will that cause a problem at all? I assume it might be a bit cheaper but will check.

 

Anything bought in the US will have US power supplies if they are external devices.  The US TV standards are very different to ours - you usually need different hardware (ATSC, cable TV) to receive them.  Even the frame rate is different (60 Hz instead of our 50 Hz), and that does affect HDMI.  That said, HDMI equipment is normally made to cope with both 50 and 60 Hz (and other frequencies), but you should check.

 

My TV is a Sony Bravia KDL-32V5500, bought 11/12/2009.  Nowhere in its specifications does it mention HDCP.  But it works just fine connected to my new Sky decoder box via HDMI.  I do not have an HD ticket, so I have not tried that.

 

From what Sky told me, if you device does HDCP, their box will probably try to use it.  But if it does not respond at all when sent HDCP queries, they disable HDCP.  But that is just my interpretation of a very short conversation with one of their operators.  They did assure me that it would work with my old non-HDCP TV, and it does.  So I would expect that it would work with anything that does not do HDCP at all.  You might get into trouble if you use something that does do HDCP, and then try to get it to record from the HDMI signal, as their HDCP may not be set up to allow that.


2672 posts

Uber Geek


  #1570757 12-Jun-2016 22:31
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fe31nz:

 

Anything bought in the US will have US power supplies if they are external devices.  The US TV standards are very different to ours - you usually need different hardware (ATSC, cable TV) to receive them.  Even the frame rate is different (60 Hz instead of our 50 Hz), and that does affect HDMI.  That said, HDMI equipment is normally made to cope with both 50 and 60 Hz (and other frequencies), but you should check.

 

 

I got my HD-PVR2 from the US. It came with a US power supply. But, from my reading of it, it will accept a wide range of input voltages and should work just fine with NZ mains, once I get an adapter plug (which cost around $7.50). It's also sold internationally, and my reading of the spec sheet is that it will cope with both PAL-zone and NTSC-zone inputs, in terms of frequencies, resolutions and frame rates etc. From memory it specifies a wide range of options, including 1080i50, 1080i60, 1080p25 and 1080p30, as being valid inputs.

 

I just need to get my backside into gear and get it all set up and tested now. The parts, including a small NUC PC, are all sitting on a shelf waiting for me to have a spare half day for tinkering.

 

 


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354 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #1570842 13-Jun-2016 09:24
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The HDPVR2 looks like a good option, though looking around I could also get a Hauppauge Colossus pci-e card.... assuming the slot is free. Need to check that. Does the HDPVR2 offer any advantages over the Colossus? I can't see anything.
The Colossus 2 and HDPVR2 are effectively the same hardware, with the Colossus 2 being squeezed onto PCIe board and using a USB - PCIe bridge on the device.

 

All models handle 50fps/60fps etc. ie, there is no US specific / NZ specific models.

 

(I work for Hauppauge, based in Wellington)




195 posts

Master Geek


  #1570915 13-Jun-2016 11:25
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sub:

 

The HDPVR2 looks like a good option, though looking around I could also get a Hauppauge Colossus pci-e card.... assuming the slot is free. Need to check that. Does the HDPVR2 offer any advantages over the Colossus? I can't see anything.
The Colossus 2 and HDPVR2 are effectively the same hardware, with the Colossus 2 being squeezed onto PCIe board and using a USB - PCIe bridge on the device.

 

All models handle 50fps/60fps etc. ie, there is no US specific / NZ specific models.

 

(I work for Hauppauge, based in Wellington)

 

 

 

 

Brilliant, thanks sub. (I assume you are the same sub, the developer of NextPVR!)


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354 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #1571201 13-Jun-2016 18:13
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mattyb:

 

Brilliant, thanks sub. (I assume you are the same sub, the developer of NextPVR!)

 

Yep, thats me laughing


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