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Ultimate Geek
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Topic # 50344 24-Nov-2009 17:25
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I just got this answer back from SkyTV support about when Primes epg will be available on Tivo.
Looks like we have to wait until 2012 for it ..

I wonder - does freeview  measure ratings data as they have primes EPG ?

Email reply from SkyTv below..

Thank you for your email.

Prime's listings are not available on TiVo's EPG (electronic programming guide) as at this time TiVo does not measure ratings data. This information is important for a free-to-air broadcaster as we need these ratings to put a value on PRIME's TV commercials.

We expect that this feature could be available in 2012 when we will review this decision at that time

Please feel free to contact SKY Television Customer Services on 0800 759 759 for further information, alternatively please respond via return email and we will endeavour to reply within 24 hours.

With kind regards,

SKY Customer Services Team

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  Reply # 275900 24-Nov-2009 18:09
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Shows how stupid Sky are.. If there is no EPG there won't be any ratings because nobody will watch Prime - Tivo hardly need to collect them..


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  Reply # 275928 24-Nov-2009 19:17
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Deffinitely, I used to watch Prime a lot on Telstra, but since we only have Tivo now, I never see what is on Prime and hence, very rarely watch it.

They are shooting themselves in the foot really. for the sake of letting freeview have EPG data, they would get so many more viewers.

DLS

 
 
 
 


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Reply # 275980 24-Nov-2009 22:35
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red herring #54641514546

since Prime went onto Freeview, those stories of Aussies watching delayed rugby and cricket highlights have been flooding various forums  Undecided

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  Reply # 276045 25-Nov-2009 08:16
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How low from Sky. They truly wish to avoid the competition. Fail.

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  Reply # 276083 25-Nov-2009 09:44
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cafeg: Prime's listings are not available on TiVo's EPG (electronic programming guide) as at this time TiVo does not measure ratings data. This information is important for a free-to-air broadcaster as we need these ratings to put a value on PRIME's TV commercials.



I too have emailed SKY and received the same copy and paste reply.


My question to people in the know is:
How do Sky/PRIME measure ratings data normally?


My situation is that I have a TV with built in Freeview receiver (gets the Freeview EPG OTA) and now a TiVo.
How does PRIME get ratings data (please disregard TiVo in this case, it's irrelevant).


Do they just monitor a small sample of population with a device of some kind?
Does the data come from the freeview broadcast somehow?


Cheers,
Joseph


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  Reply # 276086 25-Nov-2009 09:48
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Hmm, sorry to reply to my own post.
I also emailed Maori TV (MTVS) and they have replied...

"It is not currently known when or if MTVS will be available on TiVo. We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause and hope you continue to tune in and enjoy our channel."

I appreciate the email is from the Communications Manager, and I don't expect her to know the details.

So my questions are
1. How do networks provide EPG data to the TiVo service?
2. Who would have made the decision NOT to provide the EPG data, and why???

Cheers,
Joseph

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  Reply # 276090 25-Nov-2009 09:52
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Good on SKY. They probably made a commercial decision based on $$.

How many $$ in revenue to be earned by providing EPG to TiVo (more viewers, more ad revenue).
How many $$ in revenue to be earned by not providing EPG to TiVo (less viewers but higher number of paying SKY Digital subscribers).

If they are going to make more money in the medium/long term, then they have made the right choice (for themselves).

Everyone moaned about wanting Prime on Freeview. Well, now it is.

If you choose TiVo, you dont get EPG. That is pretty much TiVos fault for not securing these rights before launch.

Here in New Zealand, we praise startups, and struggling small companys who either lose, or make money "Good on you for trying", "Well done on huge profits", etc etc.

Become a dominant market player, and suddenly you become Dr Evil, and scum of the earth.

SKY is a success story in this country, and they have been bringing out better technology sooner than most competitors (pretty much exclusively if you ignore geekery, and focus on mom & pop mass market stuff).

P.S. I am not a SKY subscriber, because its far too expensive and their content largely sucks. I still respect and applaud their business.




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Reply # 276096 25-Nov-2009 10:15
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You're assertion that people will suddenly become Sky subscribers just because there is no EPG data for one, mostly repeats channel is a little flawed?

Good on Sky for making a decision based soley on profit? Really? I would prefer that they be applauded for doing something for the convenience of its viewers on any medium?
It is surely beneficial to them as the Prime channel has to attract viewers to survive, and let's be honest it isn't a big selling point as far as Sky subscriptions go, so they need to make people watch it and if peope using anything other than Sky have no idea what is coming up they will only watch it if they happen to come across something they like.  Considering it is on channel 10 and you have to skip through a bunch of non-entity channels to get there, that isn't going to be so likely for most people.

No one is saying Sky is an evil entity, they are just being dicks about providing the EPG data basically out of spite for being essentially forced to provide the channel on freeview. [If i am wrong about that, please put me straight]

The only thing I watch on the Maori channel is foreign films, which they seem to be quite good at picking for the most part. It would be nice to know what was coming up and to be able to record it.

Damon

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  Reply # 276103 25-Nov-2009 10:32
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In many ways I agree with Tony, despite also thinking what Sky are doing is braindead.

Tivo is a commercial product. Freeview is a FTA broadcast platform that also includes a free EPG for all channels included on the Freeview platform. Any DVB-T product that includes MHEG5 support can access both the regular MHEG5 EPG and the MHEG5 PVR EPG.

Tivo however choose not to use this freely available EPG - instead they want access to the raw programming content so they can do their own fancy stuff to it and deliver it over an internet connection to Tivo boxes.

Broadcasters in NZ are very protective of their programming schedules in NZ for reasons that are simply illogical. Rather than taking the view that people won't watch their programming without access to guide data they instead choose to protect it because it's a very valuable source of revenue when sold to other media players such as newspapers and TV guide.

My understanding is that Tivo pay for access to TVNZ and MediaWorks listings. I believe they may get access to the listings for other Freeview channels for free. One could conclude that both MTS and Sky simply want more money for their listings than Tivo want to pay. Whether you agree or disagree with this it's the way things are and it's unlikely that anything will change in the immediate future.

Tivo didn't have to deploy their EPG this way. They could have easily used the MHEG5 based EPG that all other Freeview certified STB's and PVR's used and would have still had access to series link information as this is also transmitted. They have however chosen not to do this and instead focussed on delivering their own EPG which has meant running into stumbling blocks like this.

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  Reply # 276153 25-Nov-2009 11:52
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With consideration to Tony's comments above, business is business and they may well be good at it (as per your claims), but as a consumer you and I have made the ultimate choice.... we're not paying for their product - it simply isn't worth it. As a consumer I don't need to justify this anymore than to say - Sky sucks.

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Master Geek

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  Reply # 280726 9-Dec-2009 12:18
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One of the reasons given by SKY for not wanting to work with TiVo was they felt 'uncomfortable' with the exclusive nature of the the TiVo-Telecom relationship.

I wonder how uncomfortable they feel considering this:

http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?ForumId=40&topicid=53073

MySkyHDi and vodafone deal.





Any views expressed here are my own and do not necessarily represent the views of my employer Telecom NZ

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  Reply # 280754 9-Dec-2009 12:58
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The non Telecom or Vodafone customer is screwed again..




Regards,

Old3eyes


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Reply # 280765 9-Dec-2009 13:06
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old3eyes: The non Telecom or Vodafone customer is screwed again..


Why are you saying that? In this case being a Telecom customer means you don't have the EPG. I think you misread the whole thing...





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Master Geek
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  Reply # 284732 22-Dec-2009 22:11
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So how many complaints do you think it'd take to get the PRIME EPG on TiVo? I'm very keen to get it as there are some shows I am very keen on that show on PRIME TV.

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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 284760 23-Dec-2009 07:52
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Complaints will not get you anywhere. Prime is owned by Sky who want people to subscribe and get mysky. Tivo is the competition. Personally I think Tivo should put a app out that allows users to upload a xml epg, allowing for selected channels to be updated. While not perfect it would be a lot better than no epg for Prime.

And talking of Prime is there anyway to rename the recordings you make from Prime? I have now got a few "help us get this epg" recordings.

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