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Mad Scientist
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#210504 30-Mar-2017 12:35
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Hi if council water supply runs through property X top supply property Y and the pipe leaks while traveling through property X, who is responsible to fix?

Thanks




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  #1750655 30-Mar-2017 12:38
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That could well depend on the procedures and policies/bylaws of your local council.

 

Why not check with them ?


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  #1750666 30-Mar-2017 12:59
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I'd imagine the owner of property Y would pay as ultimately it's their pipe. I assume there is an easement in place, which essentially means the owner of property X has given permission for the owner of property Y to run the pipe through property X. The owner of property Y retains ownership of the pipe however, meaning they are responsible for the cost of repairs, and any associated reinstatement of land features (sealed driveway surface etc) after any excavation.

 

Councils do not own laterals (the pipes to each house which branch off the main in the street). Councils will generally repair laterals at their own cost* if they are damaged on council owned land (under roads or footpaths etc), but anything within a private property boundary is the responsibility of the pipe owner (the owner of the house which is serviced by that pipe) - not necessarily the owner of the land in which the pipe sits.

 

This is just my understanding. Definitely call your local council for advice.

 

*there have been several highly publicised examples recently of Wellington City Council refusing to pay for costly lateral repairs under council roads.

 

[Edited to get my X's and Y's around the right way]


 
 
 
 


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  #1750670 30-Mar-2017 13:10
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Someone's insurance company?

 

If you are "X" and you are suffering damage / detriment, call your insurance company and let them sort out who actually pays.
That's what you pay all those expensive premiums for cool


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  #1750678 30-Mar-2017 13:28
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Wheelbarrow01:

 

I'd imagine the owner of property X would pay as ultimately it's their pipe. I assume there is an easement in place, which essentially means the owner of property Y has given permission for the owner of property X to run the pipe through property Y. The owner of property X retains ownership of the pipe however, meaning they are responsible for the cost of repairs, and any associated reinstatement of land features (sealed driveway surface etc) after any excavation.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think you may have got the X & Y's reversed?


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  #1750683 30-Mar-2017 13:35
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where is the water meter located in this scenario?


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  #1750690 30-Mar-2017 13:42
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mrdrifter:

 

I think you may have got the X & Y's reversed?

 

 

Yes I see what you mean. I have edited it now.


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  #1750727 30-Mar-2017 14:37
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dan:

 

where is the water meter located in this scenario?

 

 

this, is the leak before or after the water meter?


 
 
 
 


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  #1750764 30-Mar-2017 16:13
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I would have tought that the other property owner would require an easement to run the pipe through your property, otherwise he would have no legal right to go through your property unless it's a cross lease. 

 

 


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  #1750770 30-Mar-2017 16:25
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Probably Z.  The tricky part of course will be figuring out WHO Z is.

 

I learnt in school that Y = MX + B but that doesn't help in this case as only X is involved.

 

I found the the XYZ formula, which I have tried to apply to no avail.

 

 

 

Gut instinct is that the Z will equal either X or Y, depending on who has the better lawyer.




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  #1750779 30-Mar-2017 16:53
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Jase2985:

 

dan:

 

where is the water meter located in this scenario?

 

 

this, is the leak before or after the water meter?

 

 

Haha no water meter in the South Island





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  #1750783 30-Mar-2017 16:57
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In general, council responsibility for the pipe will end as soon as it leaves the public road; i.e. crossing a property boundary will change ownership.  It is often seen that an easement was created for a property behind during subdivision or cross-lease that allows for the pipe to be there, but the ownership responsibility will rest with the end user.

 

for major council owned stormwater connections and waste water, these will likely have easements in title over the land anyway and would be maintained by Council.




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  #1750786 30-Mar-2017 17:00
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We'll see what happens ... thanks all





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  #1751022 31-Mar-2017 09:22
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My mother had a pipe 3m underground passing through her section which was originally a watercourse/creek in the 1930s, this ran from further up the hill.  When the houses were built they put in a pipe to contain the creek and put earth on top then concreted over the top (out of sight out of mind).  Then in the 1960s, the council permitted multiple new houses up the hill to discharge their stormwater into this pipe.  By 2009 the pipe was very old and was leaking massively which was causing subsidence.

 

My mother's house didn't connect to the pipe and it simply carried the water across her property further downstream, but the council said it was her responsibility to fix.  Even if she had fixed to the council's specification it wouldn't have solved the problem at either end - nor were the neighbours interested in helping - it didn't immediately affect them.  On top of that, the council had authorised significantly more stormwater to be dumped into it over the years.  Insurance wouldn't pay because the damage was gradual and ECQ would only pay if it was a one-off flood event.

 

When she escalated this to the ombudsmen they agreed that in this case, the council should fix it due to the somewhat unusual situation, especially since they contributed by allowing a lot of extra stormwater to be diverted through it.

 

I suspect there are many pipes like this that are ticking time bombs, particularly in Auckland where a lot of very poor quality cross-leased flats were built in the 1960s.  Not the sort of thing people tend to look at when buying houses.

 

 


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  #1751027 31-Mar-2017 09:33
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joker97:

 

Jase2985:

 

dan:

 

where is the water meter located in this scenario?

 

 

this, is the leak before or after the water meter?

 

 

Haha no water meter in the South Island

 

 

Where is the toby for both X and Y?  That is usually the end of council owned pipe if there is no water meter.





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  #1751351 31-Mar-2017 20:48

In short there should be a "demarcation point" or "custody transfer point" or "point of supply" defined somewhere in the council by-laws or a service contract somewhere. That says where ownership of the pipes and / or water in them transfers from the council to private ownership. It is pointless speculating otherwise without at least knowing what council area the OP lives in.

 

If the private pipe crosses through someone else's property, even if there is no easement the pipe can usually remain. As it will be classed as an essential service. But you may still have to get a court order if the owner gets obstructive.

 

As for laterals off the council watermain. In Auckland (watercare), The meter outlet is the custody transfer point. The meter itself and everything on the inlet side is owned by watercare. While everything on the outlet side is owned by the customer - even if some of the pipe on the outlet side of the meter is on council land. New meter installations by default are on council land. But there is a process to have a meter installed on private land if there is no suitable council land outside the property. Although existing meters on private property tend to stay there. And watercare still own the inlet side pipework.






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