Your opinion please: New build/spec house/wires and cables mess

Forums › Home Workshop DIY › Your opinion please: New build/spec house/wires and cables mess - who is responsible?

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626 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2595571 31-Oct-2020 17:16

I may have figured it out; if anyone can confirm.

Fibre normally would have the ONT in the steel inside box, which routes data through the distribution.

ADSL/VDSL/POTS, is ported through the ethernet connectors to whichever desired point for modem/router eg kitchen or whatever. The DSL connection Im assuming would be in the kitchen wall ports as destination??

Al.

PS makes more sense if thats the case, as it takes the wifi away from the steel distribution box.

cyril7

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#2595576 31-Oct-2020 17:56

Hi correct as per described in my previous post, ship the dsl to wherever you want the router so it can give best wireless access, and return a lan port from the router to the cabinet and use a 5 or 8port switch to distribute ethernet to other locations.
Cyril

gregmcc

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#2595583 31-Oct-2020 18:18

ageorge:

I may have figured it out; if anyone can confirm.

Fibre normally would have the ONT in the steel inside box, which routes data through the distribution.

ADSL/VDSL/POTS, is ported through the ethernet connectors to whichever desired point for modem/router eg kitchen or whatever. The DSL connection Im assuming would be in the kitchen wall ports as destination??

Al.

PS makes more sense if thats the case, as it takes the wifi away from the steel distribution box.

The big black cable coiled around the green pillar are power cables, same for the grey duct coming out of the ground at the house.

Usually the building company arranges for the power connection, looking at this it hasn't been done. To verify this, ask for the Electrical certificate of compliance, check the bottom section that is titles "ESC" or Electrical safety certificate, if this is signed and dated it is saying that the power connect is done and safe - but obviously not, don't accept the house until it is done as you may be lumped with the power company connection costs which could easily be several thousand $$.

The other smaller grey wires could be phone or fiber, most likely fiber ducts but can't tell from the pictures, they should be neatly coiled inside the grey lidded box. Usually up to the homeowner to arrange connection of these.

ageorge

626 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2595599 31-Oct-2020 19:12

gregmcc:

The big black cable coiled around the green pillar are power cables, same for the grey duct coming out of the ground at the house.

Usually the building company arranges for the power connection, looking at this it hasn't been done. To verify this, ask for the Electrical certificate of compliance, check the bottom section that is titles "ESC" or Electrical safety certificate, if this is signed and dated it is saying that the power connect is done and safe - but obviously not, don't accept the house until it is done as you may be lumped with the power company connection costs which could easily be several thousand $$.

Great, thanks so much; below is that certificate, and unless Im wrong, its invalid due to safety omissions?

WinNZ90

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Master Geek
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#2595604 31-Oct-2020 19:34

Like someone said already, you need to check the contract, just to see if anything as been outline for this installation to happen

There are 4 different methods of delivery for a construction contract 3 out of 4 place the ball into the main contractors hands to contract all the required subcontractors, one is management style where a construction manager helps and or controls some of the work to hiring subcontractors.

However there is what you call a defect liability stage which starts from the date of the final inspection and normally has a 6 months to 12 month life spanned, if anything doesn't come up the main contractor will be built pay, if something does, like your wires you have there, they have to fix the issue within a certain time frame before they can be issued the final payment.

Also have these buildings been signed off by the council? These wires would cause compliance issues, so the person reasonable has 12 months or so to fix the issue or they can be fined a good deal of money and the builds would not get there Code of Compliance Certificate, which would reduce the value of the buildings for future sales.

If you can find out what sort of contract was used to have these buildings built then it will be quite easy to find out who is responsible, I can give further information if required.

Instead of trying your realestate agent though, some of them don't know anything when it comes to who is reasonable. Go to the council and as to see a Code of Compliance Certificate for the building or any inspection reports, take photos so when they ask why, you can show them.

SomeoneSomewhere

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#2595606 31-Oct-2020 19:45

Electricians aren't generally allowed to open the pillarboxes - those are the responsibility of the lines company. If your power isn't yet connected, you need to get hold of a retailer and get them to schedule a new connection - your electrician might be able to help smooth this out, but you need to be involved as the power company wants to know there is someone to bill before they connect it. Sometimes the builder takes on responsibility for this and transfers it to you at handover, but not always.

If the power is on and that's the power cable, take some photos clearly showing that the power cable comes out of the ground and goes back in and send them to the power company saying their contractor left it like that.

Much the same applies for the comms. Chorus needs to do the connection at the street end.

WinNZ90

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Master Geek
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#2595608 31-Oct-2020 19:47

Ok, nvm about my last post. I might not be ready that certificate right so if anyone else knows better, please do correct me.

But that certificate gives them permission to go ahead to do the work, yes the work is high risk but it is going to be done with the correct standards, they can go ahead and do the work.

I would take that down to the council tomorrow and the photos, who ever has done the work has violated there signed agreement with the council

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ageorge

626 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2595610 31-Oct-2020 19:55

All excellent advice. I did have electrical registration before they started interfering with our lives; thats when I tossed it in.

I need to get my head around whats going on here, and take action accordingly. The forum experts here clearly have a better idea than me, so thanks heaps.

SomeoneSomewhere

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#2595611 31-Oct-2020 20:00

WinNZ90:

Ok, nvm about my last post. I might not be ready that certificate right so if anyone else knows better, please do correct me.

But that certificate gives them permission to go ahead to do the work, yes the work is high risk but it is going to be done with the correct standards, they can go ahead and do the work.

I would take that down to the council tomorrow and the photos, who ever has done the work has violated there signed agreement with the council

It's the opposite - that's the electrician stating they have already done the work of laying the cable between the pillar and the house and that it complies with the relevant standards.

Because mains work (and main earthing systems, although I don't see that mentioned) is defined as high risk, it requires inspection. The electrician should be arranging/have arranged for an inspector to inspect the work and issue a Record of Inspection.

After both the COC and ROI are completed, and they have a request from a retailer, the lines company can send someone to dig the cable into the pillar box, connect it, and liven it. They can't do any of that until they have the paperwork in hand.

Pretty much all new connections are going to leave the mains cable next to the pillarbox like that for a week or so unless you arrange to have everyone there on the same day.

gregmcc

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#2595612 31-Oct-2020 20:03

Not invalid, just means it hasn't yet been connected to the power. Typically the person doing the final connection on the Pillar would fill in the ESC section, this may be the same electrician, this usually would be the power companies authorized contractor.

This COC covers the mains in the ground between the green pillar and the house, nothing in the house - although there should be another COC for the rest of the house.

It's over a year old and still not livened, Be very careful here as you may need to get the COC re-issued.

Has a record of inspection been done for the mains? (if you don't have the paperwork PM the address and I can look it up on the high risk database)?

If there is a record of Inspection (ROI) it cant be more than 6 months old before connection to the power - so another inspection will need to be done.

The COC is poorly filled out and looks non-compliant (a lot of electricians have trouble filling out a CoC correctly).

-no test results

-all parts of installation check (it should be parts - "mains")

-correctly rated earthing system is checked 'yes' - this should be no as only the mains was done

-contains fittings that are safe to connect, checked 'yes' - should be 'no' as the cable is hanging out of a grey pipe so it's not safe

It looks like you cropped the top of the COC to remove personal details (which is fine) if you like PM me the electrical worker details and I'll check the EWRB database to see if they are a suitably qualified person.

ageorge:

gregmcc:

The big black cable coiled around the green pillar are power cables, same for the grey duct coming out of the ground at the house.

Usually the building company arranges for the power connection, looking at this it hasn't been done. To verify this, ask for the Electrical certificate of compliance, check the bottom section that is titles "ESC" or Electrical safety certificate, if this is signed and dated it is saying that the power connect is done and safe - but obviously not, don't accept the house until it is done as you may be lumped with the power company connection costs which could easily be several thousand $$.

Great, thanks so much; below is that certificate, and unless Im wrong, its invalid due to safety omissions?

ageorge

626 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2595617 31-Oct-2020 20:16

Apologies, I should have added much earlier that the house is live and has been since August 2020.

I cant believe that the coil of wire is carrying HV; surely it will be availability wiring without connection otherwise its nuts.

Ive got test equipment but certainly not going to try to bare an end just in case!

An old trick to find live is a neon lamp, I might have one of those somewhere. If its live then thats totally and insanely stupid.

Hi Greg; Ill PM you the BC92243_-_Electrical thanks.

Al.

SomeoneSomewhere

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#2595619 31-Oct-2020 20:19

I would disagree with some of your points:

There is no requirement to include test results. It's a suggestion from those who wrote the form but declaring that it passed the tests is entirely acceptable. Reg 67 (3) makes this pretty clear.
The checkbox is for all parts of the installation that this certificate applies to. This certificate doesn't cover the rest of the house so doesn't matter. All work covered by this certificate (the mains cable) was safe to liven - the lines company has to terminate the far end, but they aren't going to do that if you say the cable can't be livened. If the lines company left two meters hanging out of the box that's their problem and they should be notified.
The installation must have a correctly rated earthing system or you can't connect anything. Reg 73A.

I do agree that the COC could be filled out much better though.

The main earthing system should be covered as it's defined as mains work, requiring inspection.
The first box should specify which variety of work is high-risk from the categories in Reg 6A - mains work in an installation. Underground doesn't matter.
License number needs to be on the certificate even though the ESC section is struck out.
'Type of supply system' should be 230V MEN, too.

You can search the database yourself: https://portal.worksafe.govt.nz/search-highrisk/

Are you sure that's not the neighbour's mains cable? Generally they put the pillar box on the boundary and feed two properties from each.

ageorge

626 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2595620 31-Oct-2020 20:24

//Are you sure that's not the neighbour's mains cable? Generally they put the pillar box on the boundary and feed two properties from each.

No, these are new, adjoining villas built by same company and same developer; there would seem to be no point in making either one differ.

SomeoneSomewhere

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#2595621 31-Oct-2020 20:25

If one has been connected but not the other, then yours would be underground and terminated but theirs would not be live yet so the cable would still be above ground.

ageorge

626 posts

Ultimate Geek

#2595622 31-Oct-2020 20:27

SomeoneSomewhere:

If one has been connected but not the other, then yours would be underground and terminated but theirs would not be live yet so the cable would still be above ground.

Both are same timeframe, same specifications same internals. EG they are live too and have been since August.

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