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BlakJak
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  #3035847 13-Feb-2023 11:45
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jamesrt:

tdgeek: How does Apple or Google Maps on my laptop at home know exactly where I am on the map?

 

I believe it's through aggregated data-mining and/or data collection.

 

For example, if you've ever connected to a WiFi point in your house from a mobile phone; the phone manufacturer has the ability to tie together the router MAC/External IP of the ISP/internet connection to the GPS and/or Triangulated Cellphone tower location of the phone.  Once they've done that, then anything hitting the internet from that External IP can be assumed to be in that location - hence, your laptop is located.

 

 

I don't believe Apple or Google will necessarily be able to triangulate based on cell-tower data.

 

There's parameters in there that only your mobile carrier will have ready access to.

 

But your device GPS? You betcha.




No signature to see here, move along...

 
 
 

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Oblivian
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  #3035853 13-Feb-2023 12:00
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Be aware since we've not had the emails yet, there is a step to self admit your primary location. Currently live option now on the smart tv app ver

https://help.netflix.com/en/node/128339

If a primary location hasn’t been set, we will automatically set one for you based on IP address, device IDs, and account activity.

You can always update your primary location from a TV by connecting to your Wi-Fi and following the steps above.


Which may block out some 'primary' users if they have appletv when the other 'extendrd household' have a smartTV...

tdgeek
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  #3035877 13-Feb-2023 12:36
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Oblivian: 

Which may block out some 'primary' users if they have appletv when the other 'extendrd household' have a smartTV...

 

Yep, that's me. I thought I had a few family freeloaders but since a past PW change, they musta thought I blocked them! Now, it's just the daughter and that's ok, so no issue for me but as you say, if I use ATV4 and everyone else uses apps on a TV, I'm effectively handcuffed 




wellygary
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  #3035964 13-Feb-2023 13:36
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tdgeek:

 

Yep, that's me. I thought I had a few family freeloaders but since a past PW change, they musta thought I blocked them! Now, it's just the daughter and that's ok, so no issue for me but as you say, if I use ATV4 and everyone else uses apps on a TV, I'm effectively handcuffed 

 

 

 

 

Has anyone been able to actually confirm how ATV devices are treated??
NF talks lots about "watching on a TV" indicating that it should be treated like a smart TV and have a primary location...
But I guess we are all flying in the dark until we get some real life examples....

 

 


michaelmurfy
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  #3035994 13-Feb-2023 14:19
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@wellygary In my own testing I've found my Apple TV devices are not affected (yet). I have a Google TV device in my spare bedroom that wouldn't enter Netflix without picking a primary location and that sits on my guest network. Tesla is hit and miss now, sometimes detects I am outside of my home location and other times it'll work.





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wellygary
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  #3036000 13-Feb-2023 14:32
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michaelmurfy:

 

 Tesla is hit and miss now, sometimes detects I am outside of my home location and other times it'll work.

 

 

The Tesla thing baffles me, 

 

My poor understanding of the whole primary location thing is that they don't impact on your mobile devices (phones/ipads etc) which will by definition move around with household members.

 

- but apparently Teslas are treated like a TV that can't move around ???


networkn
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  #3036005 13-Feb-2023 14:38
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michaelmurfy:

 

@wellygary In my own testing I've found my Apple TV devices are not affected (yet). I have a Google TV device in my spare bedroom that wouldn't enter Netflix without picking a primary location and that sits on my guest network. Tesla is hit and miss now, sometimes detects I am outside of my home location and other times it'll work.

 

 

Question, when you are at home, does your Tesla not use your Home WiFi, though I guess it begs the question of why you'd watch Netflix in your car at home :) 

 

 




Paul1977
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  #3036009 13-Feb-2023 14:42
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networkn:
Paul1977: Regardless, surely it’s total profit that matters.


Not necessarily. It's better to have 10 customers paying $100 than 100 paying $10.

The benefit of more customers is more people to sell add-ons to though.

NF is far better to have 100m paying customers than 200m where only half are paying

 

The bit I bolded above is revenue not profit, and it's often not better to have few customers paying more each. Total profit is what matters; not profit per customer (which you talked about), and not revenue.

 

You may be correct that total profit could increase even with fewer paying subscribers due to lower running cost after the sharers are eliminated, but I'm not convinced.

 

I.e. would their total profit increase or decrease in the below (hypothetical, but not impossible) situation:

 

Before: 220 million paying subscribers, serving 600 million streams (due to password sharing)

 

After: 200 million paying subscribers, serving 400 million streams (no password sharing)


nitro
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  #3036026 13-Feb-2023 15:13
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networkn:

Not necessarily. It's better to have 10 customers paying $100 than 100 paying $10.

 

i'm not in sales or marketing, but this came up at work many years ago now... to them, who i hope are experts on this kind of thing, for the market we serve it's better to have a bigger customer base for the following reasons:

 

  • if customer spend (equipment upgrade, etc.) is cyclic, you want more cycles more often
  • losing one customer has less of an impact; also the same when one customer decides to delay their spend cycle

 

 

 

 

 


michaelmurfy
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  #3036035 13-Feb-2023 15:21
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networkn:

 

Question, when you are at home, does your Tesla not use your Home WiFi, though I guess it begs the question of why you'd watch Netflix in your car at home :) 

 

Problem is it sits on a separate IoT network for a start but also the Netflix "app" is just Chrome, in fullscreen, viewing the Netflix site. I don't ever launch it at home so when I am out and about Netflix helpfully says I'm traveling.





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jamesrt
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  #3036050 13-Feb-2023 15:41
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BlakJak: I don't believe Apple or Google will necessarily be able to triangulate based on cell-tower data. There's parameters in there that only your mobile carrier will have ready access to. But your device GPS? You betcha.

 

What I was trying to state is that I think the phone can work out where it is without having a GPS fix based on data it receives from the cellphone towers - I'm not a telco worker, and could well be wrong; I do know the phones do have "coarse-grained" and "fine-grained" location abilities - sometimes I get a rough location on the map (in a wide blue circle) and then after some time, it narrows that down (which is probably down to the GPS taking some time to get an accurate fix).


nitro
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  #3036074 13-Feb-2023 16:48
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Oblivian: Be aware since we've not had the emails yet, there is a step to self admit your primary location. Currently live option now on the smart tv app ver

https://help.netflix.com/en/node/128339

If a primary location hasn’t been set, we will automatically set one for you based on IP address, device IDs, and account activity.

You can always update your primary location from a TV by connecting to your Wi-Fi and following the steps above.


Which may block out some 'primary' users if they have appletv when the other 'extendrd household' have a smartTV...

 

do they automatically set a primary location without a confirmation email to the account holder?


networkn
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  #3036079 13-Feb-2023 17:04
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Paul1977:

 

The bit I bolded above is revenue not profit, and it's often not better to have few customers paying more each. Total profit is what matters; not profit per customer (which you talked about), and not revenue.

 

You may be correct that total profit could increase even with fewer paying subscribers due to lower running cost after the sharers are eliminated, but I'm not convinced.

 

I.e. would their total profit increase or decrease in the below (hypothetical, but not impossible) situation:

 

Before: 220 million paying subscribers, serving 600 million streams (due to password sharing)

 

After: 200 million paying subscribers, serving 400 million streams (no password sharing)

 

 

I don't really want to get into this in depth. However, the numbers I used were for demonstration purposes, you'd need to scale them for it to be actually true. No single client should make up a huge percentage of your revenue, but that doesn't apply here anyway, as the maximum subscription is only $30 a month, so if a client leaves, you are losing $30.

 

Equally, the numbers you have posted above wouldn't reflect an actual situation so not really beneficial to discuss per se.

 

The reality is when the numbers are larger, there comes a point where the numbers of clients you have and the profit you make and the costs to support those will become unattractive.

 

It's not just about total revenue or total profit. You are looking to maximize profit per client. Ideally, you do want lots of clients.

 

Rest assured, Netflix will have done the sums, projected impact to revenue and profits and would not have gone down this path without understanding that in the short to medium term they may lose customers. A complete reversal is somewhat unlikely, though how aggressively they insist fringe cases pay $8 a month may change.

 

Rest assured, I am not suggesting that these new conditions are simply about dropping all the non-paying streams, there is definitely an element of increasing the price by 'stealth'.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


networkn
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  #3036081 13-Feb-2023 17:09
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michaelmurfy:

 

networkn:

 

Question, when you are at home, does your Tesla not use your Home WiFi, though I guess it begs the question of why you'd watch Netflix in your car at home :) 

 

Problem is it sits on a separate IoT network for a start but also the Netflix "app" is just Chrome, in fullscreen, viewing the Netflix site. I don't ever launch it at home so when I am out and about Netflix helpfully says I'm traveling.

 

 

Yeah, I suspect your setup is pretty uncommon, and I can see the situation from both sides.

 

I wonder if Telsa comes to an arrangement with NF to whitelist MAC addresses associated with Telsa vehicles perhaps.  I guess the question is, how many Tesla drivers use NF in their vehicles? I'd imagine that would be a relatively small number too of a relatively small number.


Oblivian
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  #3036085 13-Feb-2023 17:18
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nitro:

do they automatically set a primary location without a confirmation email to the account holder?



2nd faq in the link...

If a primary location hasn’t been set, we will automatically set one for you based on IP address, device IDs, and account activity.

Short answer. Yes. It appears so. And has upset people suchly.

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