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robjg63
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  #1325644 16-Jun-2015 11:09
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joker97: Why can't they build inductors on the motorways and Charge the cars driving through ... The faster you drive the stronger the charge!


Went to the step-daughters uni graduation a while ago.There were some techies getting their masters degrees from Auckland Uni.
I think there were 2 that had done some quite technical sounding studies about induction charging for vehicles (in road charging).
No doubt they headed off to google or somewhere else where cleverness is being worked on. I am sure I have already seen some video clips on this sort of thing in prototype.




Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself - A. H. Weiler


 
 
 

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frankv
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  #1325650 16-Jun-2015 11:18
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qyiet: 
You are forgetting that every compressed gas cylinder is a potential bomb even ones containing inert gasses... Yes there is less chemical energy there, but there is a whole lot of compressed mechanical energy that is seriously primed to explode should there be damage to its containment.


Well, no, I hadn't forgotten that. This argument was raised back in the 1980s about CNG tanks at 3000psi. It turned out to be a complete non-issue.

Firstly, the amount of compressed mechanical energy is quite small (2%?) compared to the amount of chemical energy. (How far could you drive on a tank of compressed air?) Secondly, how the energy is stored, whether as chemical, mechanical, nuclear, thermal, kinetic, or whatever, isn't really important. What is important is its sensitivity to sudden release.


Batman
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  #1325678 16-Jun-2015 11:49
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robjg63:
joker97: Why can't they build inductors on the motorways and Charge the cars driving through ... The faster you drive the stronger the charge!


Went to the step-daughters uni graduation a while ago.There were some techies getting their masters degrees from Auckland Uni.
I think there were 2 that had done some quite technical sounding studies about induction charging for vehicles (in road charging).
No doubt they headed off to google or somewhere else where cleverness is being worked on. I am sure I have already seen some video clips on this sort of thing in prototype.


While they're at it could they find a way to collect the cold in winter places and send them to the hot places and vice versa?



heylinb4nz
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  #1325700 16-Jun-2015 12:21
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While i'm all for prototyping and looking ahead to the future the fact is we should be doing the EV thing now and stop wasting time with green fields solutions that are decades away.

If Tesla can produce the stunning Tesla 3 for $35,000US on home soil then surely Japan or China could achieve at least this cost. Standard fast chargers can suffice for now.


Oil Companies and Governments are the issue...not lack of induction charging....or pathetic trivial issues like what bloody beeping noise to use on the EV so dumb pedestrians dont get run over (use a crossing for gods sake).


If BP were really serious with their BS trumped up feel good marketing campaign  "Beyond Petroleum" motto then they would

a) install at least 1 fast EV charger at every site worldwide
b) provide at cost price (or small margin) a standardized charger outlet and make available to all EV manfacturers
c) setup a lithium battery pack recycling service
d) work with EV manufacturers like Tesla to get the product out there, or better still buy Tesla and use dirty oil money to make Elons dream a reality


My pick is that the governments of the world will continue to collect their petrol tax and oil companies will ride out the oil till its mostly all gone...whilst shutting down or limiting any company that dares to make EVs a wider reality.

nolanz
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  #1325735 16-Jun-2015 13:22
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Could this be the answer.

Make an adaptation of this for "seeing" everything silent but deadly.

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/byxee-the-smart-active-safety-device-for-bicycle#/story




When I was a kid, we used to make engine noises on our bikes by folding up cigarette packets and fitting them so they flicked on each spoke.

DravidDavid
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  #1325749 16-Jun-2015 13:35
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nolanz: When I was a kid, we used to make engine noises on our bikes by folding up cigarette packets and fitting them so they flicked on each spoke.


I did this with paper towel cores!  Added bonus was that it looked like an exhaust, haha :)

robjg63
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  #1325775 16-Jun-2015 14:02
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heylinb4nz: While i'm all for prototyping and looking ahead to the future the fact is we should be doing the EV thing now and stop wasting time with green fields solutions that are decades away.

If Tesla can produce the stunning Tesla 3 for $35,000US on home soil then surely Japan or China could achieve at least this cost. Standard fast chargers can suffice for now.



I gotta say I agree with this. Really hard to think they couldnt make a cheaper better version if they had a mind to.
I expect that as companies get bigger and heavier it costs them more and more to do things and they are slower to adapt.

Perhaps Tesla is more agile and doesnt carry so much baggage/overhead?




Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself - A. H. Weiler




heylinb4nz
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  #1325797 16-Jun-2015 14:39
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robjg63:
heylinb4nz: While i'm all for prototyping and looking ahead to the future the fact is we should be doing the EV thing now and stop wasting time with green fields solutions that are decades away.

If Tesla can produce the stunning Tesla 3 for $35,000US on home soil then surely Japan or China could achieve at least this cost. Standard fast chargers can suffice for now.



I gotta say I agree with this. Really hard to think they couldnt make a cheaper better version if they had a mind to.
I expect that as companies get bigger and heavier it costs them more and more to do things and they are slower to adapt.

Perhaps Tesla is more agile and doesnt carry so much baggage/overhead?



Most if not all major manufacturers could easily switch to building full electrics, in fact they are simpler in terms of assembly as you don't have alot of the componentry associated with petrol driven cars (ie radiator, hoses, belts, pumps, exhaust, fuel tanks and lines etc etc)

Manufacturers release new cars and engine every year yet they cant design a compatible chassis to bolt up electric drives and battery packs ?

The fact that they are bigger, and have $$$ and infrastructure should if anything make it easier to shift to mass production.

 

It just further highlights how much the industry is controlled by the oil companies, especially when you see images of unsold petrol cars like this (http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/2014/05/cars%201.jpg)

Disgusting waste of world resources that could be better spent going into making an EV product that people would buy.


frankv
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  #1325865 16-Jun-2015 15:45
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I think it normally takes about 5 years from design to production for a car company.

So, mainstream production of EVs won't start until 5 years after the public is clamouring for them.


heylinb4nz
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  #1325898 16-Jun-2015 16:28
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frankv: I think it normally takes about 5 years from design to production for a car company.

So, mainstream production of EVs won't start until 5 years after the public is clamouring for them.



The public currently don't know anything other than what the auto manufacturers would have them believe therefore will never be "clamouring" for them.

If Tesla had the resources that Japan, Euro and US auto manfacturers had at their disposal I highly doubt it would take anywhere near 5 years to draw up and build a range of EVs that would sell like hotcakes.

They also need to get out of the mentality of needing a new model every year, when in reality they could focus on offering updated battery and drive technology on a platform \ style that is refreshed every 2-3 years.






Sidestep
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  #1326061 16-Jun-2015 20:32
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heylinb4nz:
My pick is that the governments of the world will continue to collect their petrol tax and oil companies will ride out the oil till its mostly all gone...whilst shutting down or limiting any company that dares to make EVs a wider reality.


There's no conspiracy. Using saturated hydrocarbons – extracted from fossilised sunlight- as an energy carrier and transportation fuel is just cost competitive with current EV tech.

There's a comprehensive, well used distribution infrastructure already in place, and 150 years of intensive, competitive development already behind the conversion of this fuel to mechanical energy.

Energy density's right up there. It can be transferred, contained and transported as a liquid at ambient temperatures and atmospheric pressure, has native shear stability for mechanical lubrication purposes.

Yet mixed with air becomes an explosive gas at a relatively low boiling point..

Lots of useful heat energy's released with oxidisation, and the harmless water & carbon dioxide byproducts can be released directly to the atmosphere.

Byproducts of the initial purification process can be turned into plastics, lubricating oils, asphalt.. an endless number of uses..

Of course the product needs to be competitively priced, but hey- easily portable, simply extracted chemically stored energy... what's not to love?

Batman
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  #1326062 16-Jun-2015 20:34
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I love the smell of napalm in the morning.

Sidestep
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  #1326069 16-Jun-2015 20:47
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joker97: I love the smell of napalm in the morning.


Just got in from using my fossil fueled tractor to slash a field. Try doing that with an EV..

Computer & lights running off my fossil fueled generator since mains power's off - yet again.

Do kind of like the smell of diesel in the morning..

Batman
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  #1326072 16-Jun-2015 20:50
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I'm not sure about diesel or petrol though... There's something about Gunpowder ...

dwl

dwl
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  #1326091 16-Jun-2015 21:16
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heylinb4nz: Most if not all major manufacturers could easily switch to building full electrics, in fact they are simpler in terms of assembly as you don't have alot of the componentry associated with petrol driven cars (ie radiator, hoses, belts, pumps, exhaust, fuel tanks and lines etc etc)

Most manufacturers did make this change a few years ago and started to produce EVs, we just don't see most of them here and they are in limited numbers.  From wikipedia for EVs: Chevy Spark, Fiat 500e, Ford Focus Electric, Honda Fit EV, Kia Soul EV, Peugot iOn/Citroen C-ZERO (re-badged i-MiEV), Renault Fluence ZE, Renault Zoe, Toyota RAV4 EV, Volkswagen e-Up!, Volkswagen e-Golf. Then a more complete list that added PHEVs  to the BEVs. 

The current problem remains that battery capacity (with the notable exception of Tesla who for a price give 400 km range) is on the low side to address range anxiety, even if in practice the range might be fine for may users.  However, it shouldn't be too many years before range improves / cost lowers and I think ideas like trying to charge via inductors in the road should not be needed.  Hydrogen seems to me a desperate play by oil companies to retain a distribution model whereas EV charging at home makes lots of sense, including time of day pricing, and it is here now, practical and affordable.



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