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qyiet
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  #1324983 15-Jun-2015 13:57
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MikeB4:

Can I ask why do people think it is such a bad thing that EV's are fitted with a device that will emit a low volume sound to save lives?


For the same reason that having someone run in front of a car waving a flag is a silly idea.  Look, I'm sorry you or someone you know was involved with the equivalent of a horse kicking someone because it was freaked out by the new car, but I think you are trying to solve a problem that there are already solutions for, and you'll get a negligible benefit while adding cost to devices, and increasing noise pollution.  

Your examples are also ridiculous: If you are so blind that you literally cannot see a car coming you should be using controlled intersections, or other assistance.




Warning: reality may differ from above post

 
 
 

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MikeB4
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  #1325008 15-Jun-2015 14:28
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qyiet:
MikeB4:

Can I ask why do people think it is such a bad thing that EV's are fitted with a device that will emit a low volume sound to save lives?


For the same reason that having someone run in front of a car waving a flag is a silly idea.  Look, I'm sorry you or someone you know was involved with the equivalent of a horse kicking someone because it was freaked out by the new car, but I think you are trying to solve a problem that there are already solutions for, and you'll get a negligible benefit while adding cost to devices, and increasing noise pollution.  

Your examples are also ridiculous: If you are so blind that you literally cannot see a car coming you should be using controlled intersections, or other assistance.


Wow I am speechless

Just as a heads up the disabled have rights, look them up sometime.


DravidDavid
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  #1325014 15-Jun-2015 14:34
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MikeB4:
qyiet:
MikeB4:

Can I ask why do people think it is such a bad thing that EV's are fitted with a device that will emit a low volume sound to save lives?


For the same reason that having someone run in front of a car waving a flag is a silly idea.  Look, I'm sorry you or someone you know was involved with the equivalent of a horse kicking someone because it was freaked out by the new car, but I think you are trying to solve a problem that there are already solutions for, and you'll get a negligible benefit while adding cost to devices, and increasing noise pollution.  

Your examples are also ridiculous: If you are so blind that you literally cannot see a car coming you should be using controlled intersections, or other assistance.


Wow I am speechless

Just as a heads up the disabled have rights, look them up sometime.


They have the right to not be run over as much as anyone else.  It's the responsibility of the driver to judge the situation and remain alert.  It's the responsibility of the disabled person to ensure the correct help is on hand or that they are comfortable with where they are going to not cause a traffic incident.

The rest is down to accidents.  Accidents happen.  We can't bubble wrap everyone because one or two people out of 500 can't pay attention to the road or take a gamble crossing the road without looking.



Mark
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  #1325034 15-Jun-2015 14:51
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MikeB4:
qyiet:
MikeB4:

Can I ask why do people think it is such a bad thing that EV's are fitted with a device that will emit a low volume sound to save lives?


For the same reason that having someone run in front of a car waving a flag is a silly idea.  Look, I'm sorry you or someone you know was involved with the equivalent of a horse kicking someone because it was freaked out by the new car, but I think you are trying to solve a problem that there are already solutions for, and you'll get a negligible benefit while adding cost to devices, and increasing noise pollution.  

Your examples are also ridiculous: If you are so blind that you literally cannot see a car coming you should be using controlled intersections, or other assistance.


Wow I am speechless

Just as a heads up the disabled have rights, look them up sometime.



What have the rights of the disabled got to do with what he wrote ?  Yes he was a bit blunt but nothing he wrote was suggesting that people with disabilities are due anything less than an able bodied person ?

I think he was trying to say that if someone (for example) is blind, then they will have a process they follow to get across a road .. they don't just step on out into traffic without knowing it is safe, I'm not blind so I don;t really know how they weigh the odds on if it is safe to cross or not but I would guess (lots of guessing here) that if the odds were not good they would follow their process and get assistance be it a person or a crossing where they can press a button to stop traffic... after which they have to trust the road users (noisy cars, trucks or quiet cyclists, runners or EVs) to follow their process (ie. don't run the blind guy down .. if nothing else they are sticky and take ages to wash off!)


MikeB4
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  #1325045 15-Jun-2015 14:59
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Yet no one has answered this which I ask in a civil manner  "Can I ask why do people think it is such a bad thing that EV's are fitted with a device that will emit a low volume sound to save lives?" 
I also ask you consider this in association with my comment that it is not just for crossing roads but also carparks, parks etc

gsr

gsr
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  #1325051 15-Jun-2015 15:03
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Is it just me who saw a red Tesla in Auckland or does everyone know about it?

DravidDavid
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  #1325055 15-Jun-2015 15:06
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gsr: Is it just me who saw a red Tesla in Auckland or does everyone know about it?

It's been here for a while I think.  A rich person imported a left hand drive model as he was impatient and didn't want to wait for the delayed Australasian release or something.



shk292
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  #1325072 15-Jun-2015 15:20
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MikeB4: Yet no one has answered this which I ask in a civil manner  "Can I ask why do people think it is such a bad thing that EV's are fitted with a device that will emit a low volume sound to save lives?" 
I also ask you consider this in association with my comment that it is not just for crossing roads but also carparks, parks etc

a. It adds to noise pollution
b. It would be ineffective/unnecessary, because most car noise is from tyres and wind, not engine
c. It would be dangerous, because it would encourage people, especially impatient or visually impaired ones, to rely on hearing a vehicle.  And they might then get hit by a cyclist, runner, free-wheeling car, Rolls Royce etc etc.  Or they might get hit by an EV with malfunctioning noise generator, which means you'd have to test all noise generators after an accident and might render the owner liable if it had failed.

Bottom line - vehicles are dangerous, and many are quiet.  You need to watch out for them.  If you aren't able to do this, cross where assistance is available

SirHumphreyAppleby
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  #1325074 15-Jun-2015 15:21
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MikeB4: Yet no one has answered this which I ask in a civil manner  "Can I ask why do people think it is such a bad thing that EV's are fitted with a device that will emit a low volume sound to save lives?" 
I also ask you consider this in association with my comment that it is not just for crossing roads but also carparks, parks etc


It is bad because...

1/ It is technologically redundant. The technology should be pure and not tainted by an expectation to maintain what we had in the past.
2/ It doesn't assist visually impaired people, only those who don't bother using all their senses to cross the road. Those with significant visual impairment cannot safely cross roads without assistance, in the form of another person, a guide dog, or crossing signal. EVs don't change that.
3/ People with hearing problems don't benefit - hearing aides are designed to assist with communication, and warning signals won't operate in those frequencies, otherwise they will annoy everyone.
4/ The signals may actually make the roads more dangerous. My local shopping centre for example has a car park on the other side of the road, with bus shelters between the street and car park. Low frequencies (from an ICE), while less directional, can be perceived by our bodies and felt through the ground. We instinctively know if what we feel and what we hear don't add up. High frequencies bounce off solid objects like bus shelters, giving the perception that the car in the car park is actually a vehicle on the road coming from the other direction.


Mark
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  #1325075 15-Jun-2015 15:23
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MikeB4: Yet no one has answered this which I ask in a civil manner  "Can I ask why do people think it is such a bad thing that EV's are fitted with a device that will emit a low volume sound to save lives?" 
I also ask you consider this in association with my comment that it is not just for crossing roads but also carparks, parks etc


OK I'll answer the question :  Buzzers on EVs would sound weird and people wouldn't buy them.  (similar to the old red flag waver of ye olde days)



RUKI
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  #1325076 15-Jun-2015 15:25
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frankv:
I wonder, can you use an EV as a UPS as well? Power goes down at home, plug in your car and keep the fridge/PC/TV going?


I'm not sure if this is really practical. It assumes you have some spare capacity in your EV.



The program is in full swing in Japan. It is supported by Japanese government. Purpose is obvious - have your EV as a back up power in the earth - quake prone Japan. The same reason why JDM cars (like the Caldina we are selling right now) has 12V to 100V invertor - for the car to be your power back up.
That experience must be looked at.
An article from 2012:
http://www.nissan-global.com/EN/NEWS/2012/_STORY/120530-01-e.html

MikeB4
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  #1325113 15-Jun-2015 15:42
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shk292:
MikeB4: Yet no one has answered this which I ask in a civil manner  "Can I ask why do people think it is such a bad thing that EV's are fitted with a device that will emit a low volume sound to save lives?" 
I also ask you consider this in association with my comment that it is not just for crossing roads but also carparks, parks etc

a. It adds to noise pollution
b. It would be ineffective/unnecessary, because most car noise is from tyres and wind, not engine
c. It would be dangerous, because it would encourage people, especially impatient or visually impaired ones, to rely on hearing a vehicle.  And they might then get hit by a cyclist, runner, free-wheeling car, Rolls Royce etc etc.  Or they might get hit by an EV with malfunctioning noise generator, which means you'd have to test all noise generators after an accident and might render the owner liable if it had failed.

Bottom line - vehicles are dangerous, and many are quiet.  You need to watch out for them.  If you aren't able to do this, cross where assistance is available


Thank you for a civil answer, appreciated.

Now if I could respond to your points (yes I am disabled)

a. It adds to noise pollution  Not really it does not need to be that loud just need to be different. A Tui doing its morning chorus would be louder

b. It would be ineffective/unnecessary, because most car noise is from tyres and wind, not engine   yes that is true at higher speed but at city speed and carpark speed etc there is virtually no wind noise and very very low tyre noise

c. It would be dangerous, because it would encourage people, especially impatient or visually impaired ones, to rely on hearing a vehicle.  And they might then get hit by a cyclist, runner, free-wheeling car, Rolls Royce etc etc.  Or they might get hit by an EV with malfunctioning noise generator, which means you'd have to test all noise generators after an accident and might render the owner liable if it had failed.

Yes A cyclist or runner could hit them but I am sure there are not too many of them that weigh 1325KG (curb weight of a Prius as an example)

Now when I use my wheel chair I am considerate of drivers and will move out of the way in carparks etc if I hear them approaching, regretfully many drivers do not show the same courtesy in return. Yes there is responsibility on the disabled to protect themselves
but there is responsibility for others in the community and the authorities to have regard to Article 9. The addition of a warning device would maybe add around $100 or maybe $500 to a car and again Prius as an example around 0.5% to 1%  

Bottom line - vehicles are dangerous, and many are quiet.  You need to watch out for them.  If you aren't able to do this, cross where assistance is available  yes roads are dangerous and crossing where there is assistance is desirable but not always possible for the disabled and
of course all drivers obey their responsibilities at controlled crossing. But what about carparks, Parks, etc or should the disabled not go there at all.



MikeB4
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  #1325116 15-Jun-2015 15:45
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Mark:
MikeB4: Yet no one has answered this which I ask in a civil manner  "Can I ask why do people think it is such a bad thing that EV's are fitted with a device that will emit a low volume sound to save lives?" 
I also ask you consider this in association with my comment that it is not just for crossing roads but also carparks, parks etc


OK I'll answer the question :  Buzzers on EVs would sound weird and people wouldn't buy them.  (similar to the old red flag waver of ye olde days)




It does not need to be a buzzer

jonathan18
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  #1325117 15-Jun-2015 15:46
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DravidDavid:
gsr: Is it just me who saw a red Tesla in Auckland or does everyone know about it?

It's been here for a while I think.  A rich person imported a left hand drive model as he was impatient and didn't want to wait for the delayed Australasian release or something.


Apparently there are six Teslas in NZ. There was an interview on National Radio last month with the owner of one of these (think it could be the same one? He says he also wanted the European version as it has the built-in third row of seats, which the Aus-sourced model was never going to have). He's the same guy behind a group that's putting funds together to build a number of fast charging stations across NZ.

Link to interview on this page: http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/thiswayup/20150502

MikeB4
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  #1325123 15-Jun-2015 15:50
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jonathan18:
DravidDavid:
gsr: Is it just me who saw a red Tesla in Auckland or does everyone know about it?

It's been here for a while I think.  A rich person imported a left hand drive model as he was impatient and didn't want to wait for the delayed Australasian release or something.


Apparently there are six Teslas in NZ. There was an interview on National Radio last month with the owner of one of these (think it could be the same one? He says he also wanted the European version as it has the built-in third row of seats, which the Aus-sourced model was never going to have). He's the same guy behind a group that's putting funds together to build a number of fast charging stations across NZ.

Link to interview on this page: http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/thiswayup/20150502


I would love a Tesla. However I think Hydrogen fuel cell is the ultimate future but a long way off. 

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