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Dinga96
113 posts

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  #2005895 1-May-2018 12:25
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wellygary:

 

Dinga96:

 

I still think the government could offer some more incentives,most other European countries do.The USA the UK  and Norway are just some I can recall.The politicians surely must be thinking of going down that route .

 

The problem with EV incentives is that they are hideously regressive, i.e. the main users are the wealthy,

 

Is it fair to tax low income people to pay for wealthier people to buy an EV  such as a Tesla...

 

 

 

 

Agree completely.No one should be subsidizing the top end price bracket for evs .The incentives should only apply to vehicles like Kona E that will be affordable once the incentive is applied.


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surfisup1000
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  #2005903 1-May-2018 12:33
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The thing that really annoys me, is that the government goes and shuts down the oil and gas industry in New Zealand, linking it to climate change. 

 

But, shutting down the industry will worsen climate change because we'll just be exporting our emissions to countries with lax environmental standards. 

 

Electric cars are one product that will make a significant dent in Co2 emissions . So, why don't the government subsidise electric cars ? That is, if they were honest about wanting to reduce Co2 levels?

 

It just feels like we are being scammed by the government. And didn't even need to use a nigerian prince to do it. 


frednz

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  #2014525 12-May-2018 09:53
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https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/hyundai-kona-ev-prototype-2018-first-drive-electric-suv

 

Here's an extract from the above article:

 

The exact positioning of Hyundai’s second all-electric passenger car to market, after the Ioniq, is still to be confirmed ahead of a UK showrooms arrival later this summer. What’s already clear, however, is that the Kona Electric won’t be priced like too many other compact crossover hatchbacks; company sources suggest they’re working hard to make the top-of-the-line version between £35,000 and £37,000 (before any purchase incentive).

 

The review suggests that the quoted range of the 64 kWh model of 300 miles (484 km) is achievable:

 

 … our overall experience suggested that you could easily average the 12kWh per 100km necessary to make good on Hyundai’s 300-mile real-world range on a mix of urban and extra-urban roads. At times, you could even improve on it.

 

The suggested price of 37000 pounds for the 64 kWh model shows that new EVs are still for the wealthy, but this EV is well worth waiting for if you have a healthy bank account!




paulchinnz
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  #2027728 3-Jun-2018 08:22
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So 2019 NZ release given hardly enough cars even for the Norwegians? Also looking like ~NZ$80k for 64kwh flavour...

https://electrek.co/2018/05/31/hyundai-kona-ev-gets-norwegian-price-specs-as-company-plans-to-make-own-batteries/

MikeB4
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  #2027729 3-Jun-2018 08:42
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@surfisup1000 if the Government subsidised new EVs the money will have to be moved from other programmes like health or housing. If not current tax would have to increase to meet this cost. There is already Government assistance by way of waiver of road user charges.

PhantomNVD
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  #2027740 3-Jun-2018 09:52
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Only useful ‘subsidy’ for EV will be a blanket RuC system where all taxes are based on the car/truck/bus own impact on the road and emissions. Then similar spec EV’s will trounce weekly ‘running costs’ of petrol without the current ‘pay your share!’ whine.

EVs really should also ‘pay their share’ of things like the AKL road upgrades (in AKL), and potential spin offs could be different RuC rates based on ownership address. It now occurs to me THAT would maybe ‘decentralise’ AKL businesses too ! 🤔

This could also facilitate WINZ ‘RuC’ credits applied to low income earners to alleviate the costs that the current fuel tax hikes are introducing too...

PhantomNVD
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  #2027741 3-Jun-2018 09:53
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MikeB4: @surfisup1000 if the Government subsidised new EVs the money will have to be moved from other programmes like health or housing. If not current tax would have to increase to meet this cost. There is already Government assistance by way of waiver of road user charges.


Carbon emissions ARE a ‘health cost’ too?



frednz

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  #2027923 3-Jun-2018 19:13
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MikeB4: @surfisup1000 if the Government subsidised new EVs the money will have to be moved from other programmes like health or housing. If not current tax would have to increase to meet this cost. There is already Government assistance by way of waiver of road user charges.

 

http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/356082/fuel-car-levy-could-subsidise-electric-vehicles-govt

 

From the above:

 

Green Party co-leader and Climate Change Minister James Shaw told Morning Report one option being looked at was the prohibitive cost of electric vehicles.

 

"So what the report is talking about is a freebate system where essentially we charge a price on - we put a levy on - fossil fuel vehicles and you use that revenue to subsidise electric vehicles."

 

So at least the Government realises that EVs have a "prohibitive cost". If a levy is placed on fossil fuel vehicles and this is used to subsidise EVs, then money doesn't have to be moved from programmes such as health, education or housing. But the National Party suggested that:

 

…. people who can only afford cheap secondhand Japanese imports would effectively be subsidising the cost of electric cars for the wealthier New Zealanders who can afford them.

 

Even if you are wealthy and could "afford" an EV that costs nearly double what its petrol equivalent sells for, this doesn't mean to say that you will actually buy it in preference to a petrol vehicle that does more than an EV will do and which costs only half the price of an EV!


frednz

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  #2027931 3-Jun-2018 19:24
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paulchinnz: So 2019 NZ release given hardly enough cars even for the Norwegians? Also looking like ~NZ$80k for 64kwh flavour...

https://electrek.co/2018/05/31/hyundai-kona-ev-gets-norwegian-price-specs-as-company-plans-to-make-own-batteries/

 

 

If the price of a new 64 kWh Kona EV is going to be around NZ$80,000, then this would be about double the price of the equivalent Kona petrol version!

 

Now just when people start to get interested in a new EV which at last has a decent range (around 400km - 480km), we find that not only is it likely to be a prohibitive cost, but also that there will be a very limited world-wide supply of these vehicles so that NZ is likely to have to wait for ages before they arrive here!

 

Now when will manufacturers concentrate on EV production and forget about producing petrol vehicles? Until this mindset occurs, we will not only pay a huge price for EVs but we will also have to wait ages for the privilege of buying them!


gzt

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  #2027967 3-Jun-2018 20:56
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frednz:

MikeB4: @surfisup1000 if the Government subsidised new EVs the money will have to be moved from other programmes like health or housing. If not current tax would have to increase to meet this cost. There is already Government assistance by way of waiver of road user charges.


http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/356082/fuel-car-levy-could-subsidise-electric-vehicles-govt


From the above:


Green Party co-leader and Climate Change Minister James Shaw told Morning Report one option being looked at was the prohibitive cost of electric vehicles.


"So what the report is talking about is a freebate system where essentially we charge a price on - we put a levy on - fossil fuel vehicles and you use that revenue to subsidise electric vehicles."


So at least the Government realises that EVs have a "prohibitive cost". If a levy is placed on fossil fuel vehicles and this is used to subsidise EVs, then money doesn't have to be moved from programmes such as health, education or housing. But the National Party suggested that:


…. people who can only afford cheap secondhand Japanese imports would effectively be subsidising the cost of electric cars for the wealthier New Zealanders who can afford them.


Even if you are wealthy and could "afford" an EV that costs nearly double what its petrol equivalent sells for, this doesn't mean to say that you will actually buy it in preference to a petrol vehicle that does more than an EV will do and which costs only half the price of an EV!


We import a ridiculous number of second hand vehicles from overseas. I suspect it's around 100,000 per year. That being the case a $100 levy gets you $10mil to splash around on the small number of electric vehicle imports. Actually seems like it would work.

Personally I'd like to see the targeting smart and aimed at replacing vehicles currently utilizing some good percentage of the maximum range five days a week (calc as kms per year) to get the maximum benefit in co2 reduction possible for at least a couple of years. Ie; results fast.

Subsidising an electric car to have it do 20km per day or something is not very smart at all. Even so, that approach does increase the critical mass of ev on the road you just run the risk it will be underutilized and age. If the averages work out maybe it's ok, it seems inefficient to me. It does replace the nz fleet on average it's not all bad, but imo it might lose sight that co2 reduction is the target.

wellygary
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  #2027970 3-Jun-2018 21:06
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gzt: We import a ridiculous number of second hand vehicles from overseas. I suspect it's around 100,000 per year. That being the case a $100 levy gets you $10mil to splash around on the small number of electric vehicle imports. Actually seems like it would work.

 

 

Sticking $100 tax on a 2006 Previa people mover to give someone a discount on a new Tesla or E-golf has absolutely hideous regressive tax optics from where I am sitting.....

 

 

About the only resonably fair way to it would be the only tax new imcoming ICE vehicles,

 

 

But as you want to find someway to incentivise high km users, rather then 3 times a week shopping carts, and to be brutal the easiest way to do that make EVs cheap for taxi and other public carriage users, - but then you hit issues with people registering as "ubers" or the like jsut to get hold of an EV subsidy,

 

 

the boundry issues could be a real problem.......

 

 

 

 


MikeB4
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  #2028007 3-Jun-2018 21:43
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Right now a levy on ICE vehicles is wrong. Currently the availability of EVs is abysmal. There is a lack variety and a lack of sufficient production. Also the infrastructure is nowhere close to being able to support a greater uptake EVs.
I have recently been in the market for an EV but ended up buying a new ICE due to the very poor offerings here right now and for a while based on production plans.

gzt

gzt
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  #2028048 3-Jun-2018 23:02
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MikeB4: Right now a levy on ICE vehicles is wrong. Currently the availability of EVs is abysmal. There is a lack variety and a lack of sufficient production.

Part of that is a chicken/egg scenario. On the other hand it's pretty clear that manufacturers are committed to EV and the curve will pick up rapidly.

Also the infrastructure is nowhere close to being able to support a greater uptake EVs.

There's a good amount of investment going in to charging. To me it looks in a good position to scale.

I have recently been in the market for an EV but ended up buying a new ICE due to the very poor offerings here right now and for a while based on production plans.

Agree it's a decision that does not work for everyone at the present time.

Batman
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  #2028084 4-Jun-2018 08:13
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converting to EVs is the best way to reduce cars on the road. there will be miles long queues of Konas waiting to charge on their road trip ...

i’d then build a giant shopping mall with expensive toys for the parents to spend money on ... while providing charge

while trying not to use any plastic packaging on the products i sell. but i won’t be using electric trucks to transport the mechandise and food and beverages.




Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


  #2028085 4-Jun-2018 08:19
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Batman: converting to EVs is the best way to reduce cars on the road. there will be miles long queues of Konas waiting to charge on their road trip ... .

 

you mean like a petrol station?

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