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Linuxluver
5799 posts

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  #2044526 27-Jun-2018 07:49
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Dinga96:

 

Assuming all this speculation is right ,why then is Hyundai even bothering?What I mean is, it seems a daft proposition for a major car brand to promote something  and then turn around and say, well we only have this  model and it is the elite one and by the way their is only a few being made .In other words why waste money on the thing to the point of flying one out here for an agg show. No point promoting something if you can not come up with a reasonably priced product that people will want.If they do stick to the $80000 price tag on the Kona EV, I believe it will sell in very low numbers.I may be wrong , just can not see people prepared to pay that much money for a vehicle that is essentially not a premium car brand.

 



They bother because they can make lots of money on the ones they do sell.....and because they will lose some high-ish value customers to other brands if they aren't available at all. Plus....pride. 

Making $25K on 50 cars is still $1.25 million in profit.  





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jfanning
436 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2044598 27-Jun-2018 09:27
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Linuxluver:

 


NZ suffers because incomes are comparatively lower in major currency terms and there are no real incentives to expand what small market there is at this price point. 

 

 

 

 

What kinds of incentives are you suggesting?


Dinga96
113 posts

Master Geek


  #2045161 28-Jun-2018 09:18
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frednz:

 

Dinga96:

 

Assuming all this speculation is right ,why then is Hyundai even bothering?What I mean is, it seems a daft proposition for a major car brand to promote something  and then turn around and say, well we only have this  model and it is the elite one and by the way their is only a few being made .In other words why waste money on the thing to the point of flying one out here for an agg show. No point promoting something if you can not come up with a reasonably priced product that people will want.If they do stick to the $80000 price tag on the Kona EV, I believe it will sell in very low numbers.I may be wrong , just can not see people prepared to pay that much money for a vehicle that is essentially not a premium car brand.

 

 

I haven't seen any statement from Hyundai which says that the only model being imported into NZ is the elite one and that the price of this will be $80,000. I have seen a few rumours on Facebook etc to this effect, but the official line from Hyundai is that no prices for NZ have yet been released.

 

This puzzles me a little because it has been reported that some people have already ordered the 64 kWh Kona so that they can be first in line to get one, when it arrives. And even the arrival date hasn't been announced by Hyundai yet and at the moment you can't take one for a test drive.

 

When someone places an order for a vehicle, you would think that a price would have to be specified, but how can a dealer specify a price if Hyundai say that no prices have yet been finalised? Again, it has been rumoured that the order price is $79,999, but couldn't Hyundai could come up with a "final" price that's well below or above this?

 

I agree that third-party importers have a viable business model for some time ahead if the EV version of the Hyundai Kona is going to retail for nearly double the amount of the petrol based version. This is a pity, because a lot of potential EV buyers just won't buy second-hand imported EVs, even if they are substantially cheaper than the NZ-New ones.

 

 

 

 

Your quiet correct about the model lineup and pricing as not being announced.As far as the lineup, I was going on their last offering of the Ioniq Bev.I believe that vehicle was only coming in in one spec,that being all optioned.In my defence I might say I did say assuming all the speculation was right.

 

Agree about the ordering before arrival and with not even having driven the car.Seems to be happening over at Jaquar Landrover also as they are taking pre orders   for the I Pace which may not be in the country until 2nd quarter next year.If people are happy to go along with this approach, I suppose they can get away with it.




Dinga96
113 posts

Master Geek


  #2045459 28-Jun-2018 12:51
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Linuxluver:

Dinga96:


Assuming all this speculation is right ,why then is Hyundai even bothering?What I mean is, it seems a daft proposition for a major car brand to promote something  and then turn around and say, well we only have this  model and it is the elite one and by the way their is only a few being made .In other words why waste money on the thing to the point of flying one out here for an agg show. No point promoting something if you can not come up with a reasonably priced product that people will want.If they do stick to the $80000 price tag on the Kona EV, I believe it will sell in very low numbers.I may be wrong , just can not see people prepared to pay that much money for a vehicle that is essentially not a premium car brand.




They bother because they can make lots of money on the ones they do sell.....and because they will lose some high-ish value customers to other brands if they aren't available at all. Plus....pride. 

Making $25K on 50 cars is still $1.25 million in profit.  



Linuxluver you seem to be saying Hyundai is not committed to selling bev's here.I also not so sure they are over pricing the Kona e.How can you know their profit margin?I.50 cars,hope they get a few more than 50.At that amount I may only ever see one.

MikeAqua
6903 posts

Uber Geek


  #2045524 28-Jun-2018 14:03
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Dinga96:

 

Assuming all this speculation is right ,why then is Hyundai even bothering?What I mean is, it seems a daft proposition for a major car brand to promote something  and then turn around and say, well we only have this  model and it is the elite one and by the way their is only a few being made .In other words why waste money on the thing to the point of flying one out here for an agg show. No point promoting something if you can not come up with a reasonably priced product that people will want.If they do stick to the $80000 price tag on the Kona EV, I believe it will sell in very low numbers.I may be wrong , just can not see people prepared to pay that much money for a vehicle that is essentially not a premium car brand.

 

 

Because new EVs are for quite wealthy people and a little bit of scarcity helps make them trendy.

 

We saw the same when Prius was released.  At one point used Priuses in the US were reported to be selling for more than the RRP. 





Mike


Dinga96
113 posts

Master Geek


  #2045688 28-Jun-2018 17:18
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MikeAqua:

 

Dinga96:

 

Assuming all this speculation is right ,why then is Hyundai even bothering?What I mean is, it seems a daft proposition for a major car brand to promote something  and then turn around and say, well we only have this  model and it is the elite one and by the way their is only a few being made .In other words why waste money on the thing to the point of flying one out here for an agg show. No point promoting something if you can not come up with a reasonably priced product that people will want.If they do stick to the $80000 price tag on the Kona EV, I believe it will sell in very low numbers.I may be wrong , just can not see people prepared to pay that much money for a vehicle that is essentially not a premium car brand.

 

 

Because new EVs are for quite wealthy people and a little bit of scarcity helps make them trendy.

 

We saw the same when Prius was released.  At one point used Priuses in the US were reported to be selling for more than the RRP. 

 

 

Maybe but I tend to think they(Hyundai) are more likely unable to keep up with world wide demand.


Linuxluver
5799 posts

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  #2046344 30-Jun-2018 11:46
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jfanning:

 

Linuxluver:

 


NZ suffers because incomes are comparatively lower in major currency terms and there are no real incentives to expand what small market there is at this price point. 

 

 

 

 

What kinds of incentives are you suggesting?

 

 

Whatever is fair and works to speed up a move away from fossil fuels. A fee-bate on new or used fossil fuel imports is a good idea. It doesn't affect existing cars, but provides a direct incentive not to buy new FF imports and buy electric instead. The funds raised could be used to make it easier get EVs. Maybe interest-free loans if direct rebates aren't politically acceptable. Or just buy cars and give them away in a lottery. 

It wouldn't affect "the poor" that National is suddenly worried about (now they aren't office to ignore / villify them anymore) because we already have over 2 million cars in-country they can choose from. It's also worth keeping in mind the consequences of not doing enough about climate change will affect everyone...and the poor most of all.  





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I've been on Geekzone over 15 years..... Time flies.... 




Linuxluver
5799 posts

Uber Geek

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  #2046346 30-Jun-2018 11:49
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Dinga96:
Linuxluver:

 

They bother because they can make lots of money on the ones they do sell.....and because they will lose some high-ish value customers to other brands if they aren't available at all. Plus....pride. 

Making $25K on 50 cars is still $1.25 million in profit.  

 



Linuxluver you seem to be saying Hyundai is not committed to selling bev's here.I also not so sure they are over pricing the Kona e.How can you know their profit margin?I.50 cars,hope they get a few more than 50.At that amount I may only ever see one.


If you look at the price elsewhere - something we will be able to do eventually - it becomes obvious whether NZ is paying a premium or not. 

Any company that REALLY wants to sell EVs to help make the change away from FFs won't offer a few dozen cars for high prices. 

It won't be hard to see who is serious and who isn't.  





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I've been on Geekzone over 15 years..... Time flies.... 


jfanning
436 posts

Ultimate Geek


  #2046391 30-Jun-2018 11:58
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Linuxluver:

 

Whatever is fair and works to speed up a move away from fossil fuels. A fee-bate on new or used fossil fuel imports is a good idea. It doesn't affect existing cars, but provides a direct incentive not to buy new FF imports and buy electric instead. The funds raised could be used to make it easier get EVs. Maybe interest-free loans if direct rebates aren't politically acceptable. Or just buy cars and give them away in a lottery. 

It wouldn't affect "the poor" that National is suddenly worried about (now they aren't office to ignore / villify them anymore) because we already have over 2 million cars in-country they can choose from. It's also worth keeping in mind the consequences of not doing enough about climate change will affect everyone...and the poor most of all.  

 

 

 

 

That confuses me, if you offer a rebate to the rich to buy a car they can already afford, how is that any better?  "The poor" are still buying regular cars, and still paying high petrol prices, and are the ones that are most likely going to performing long journeys in their car as they can't afford flights.

 

 

 

And it doesn't make the world any better if you buy an EV and then flog your old car off to someone, the emissions are still occurring.  

 

 

 

The incentives need to come from the car manufacturers, not "the poor" subsidising well off people buying new things.


frednz

1431 posts

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  #2058818 19-Jul-2018 13:04
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https://www.evcamel.com/hyundai-kona-electric-launch-details/

 

From the above:

 

Hyundai have announced details of the Hyundai Kona Electric and its exciting for those in the market for a lower cost SUV than the Jaguar I-Pace and the Tesla range.

 

4 models are going to be available as below (prices including deduction of Government plug-in car grant):

 

  • SE 39kWh – from £24,995
  • Premium 39 kWh – from £26,370
  • Premium 64 kWh – from £29,495
  • Premium SE 64 kWh – from £31,795

Hyundai NZ still haven't announced the NZ prices but are sending out emails regularly telling you all the benefits of owning a Kona. The UK Govt plug-in car grant (mentioned above) would probably make it cheaper in the UK than it will be here.

 

From Facebook:

 

Elise Boonstra Hi guys,
We’re super excited to welcome the Kona EV to NZ – the first compact-eSUV! We’ll be unveiling it officially at EV World from the 9th till the 11th of August at ASB Showgrounds in Auckland with a number of Kona’s on-site in the test drive arena. The first customers will be taking delivery around the same time. The link signs you up to receive all the latest information with full specs and pricing due to be announced through this channel ahead of its launch so feel free to sign up.

The countdown is on!

Cheers, Elise @ Hyundai

 

Link to August 2018 EV World


gsr

gsr
111 posts

Master Geek


  #2058848 19-Jul-2018 13:50
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Linuxluver:

 

The incentives need to come from the car manufacturers, not "the poor" subsidising well off people buying new things.

 

 

 

 

How do you do that without subsidising manufacturers (assuming that a lack of demand is due to high prices which is due to lack of mass production)? 


wellygary
6725 posts

Uber Geek


  #2058850 19-Jul-2018 13:51
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frednz:

 

https://www.evcamel.com/hyundai-kona-electric-launch-details/

 

From the above:

 

Hyundai have announced details of the Hyundai Kona Electric and its exciting for those in the market for a lower cost SUV than the Jaguar I-Pace and the Tesla range.

 

4 models are going to be available as below (prices including deduction of Government plug-in car grant):

 

  • SE 39kWh – from £24,995
  • Premium 39 kWh – from £26,370
  • Premium 64 kWh – from £29,495
  • Premium SE 64 kWh – from £31,795

Hyundai NZ still haven't announced the NZ prices but are sending out emails regularly telling you all the benefits of owning a Kona. The UK Govt plug-in car grant (mentioned above) would probably make it cheaper in the UK than it will be here.

 

 

UK, grant exclusive prices are

 

SE 39kWh - £29,495

 

Premium 39 kWh - £30,870

 

Premium 64 kWh - £33,995

 

Premium SE 64 kWh - £36,295

 

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/cars/982448/Hyundai-Kona-Electric-UK-price-specs-range

 

The way to calculate VAT rates on new cars in the UK is just plain nuts, dealers are allowed to calculate the tax based on their "profit margin" or 20% of the sale price, I guess they choose whichever is lesser...

 

...at 20% VAT and 15% NZ GST  and a 2:1 exchange rate,  you could possible see a 64Kw for 65K FOB,

 

A base spec 40Kw Leaf in the UK ( exl grants) is 26,500  and if that equates to 60NZD,  at that same margin rates a 34K GBP Kona would be 76 NZD landed.....

 

so 75K ...could be possible.....

 

 

 

 


Dinga96
113 posts

Master Geek


  #2058862 19-Jul-2018 14:05
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frednz:

 

https://www.evcamel.com/hyundai-kona-electric-launch-details/

 

From the above:

 

Hyundai have announced details of the Hyundai Kona Electric and its exciting for those in the market for a lower cost SUV than the Jaguar I-Pace and the Tesla range.

 

4 models are going to be available as below (prices including deduction of Government plug-in car grant):

 

  • SE 39kWh – from £24,995
  • Premium 39 kWh – from £26,370
  • Premium 64 kWh – from £29,495
  • Premium SE 64 kWh – from £31,795

Hyundai NZ still haven't announced the NZ prices but are sending out emails regularly telling you all the benefits of owning a Kona. The UK Govt plug-in car grant (mentioned above) would probably make it cheaper in the UK than it will be here.

 

From Facebook:

 

Elise Boonstra Hi guys,
We’re super excited to welcome the Kona EV to NZ – the first compact-eSUV! We’ll be unveiling it officially at EV World from the 9th till the 11th of August at ASB Showgrounds in Auckland with a number of Kona’s on-site in the test drive arena. The first customers will be taking delivery around the same time. The link signs you up to receive all the latest information with full specs and pricing due to be announced through this channel ahead of its launch so feel free to sign up.

The countdown is on!

Cheers, Elise @ Hyundai

 

Link to August 2018 EV World

 

 

Great that we are to get the Kona before the UK!They are only taking orders next month over there.Interested to know what models the ones at the show will be.

 

Thanks for the update Frednz


frednz

1431 posts

Uber Geek


  #2059011 19-Jul-2018 20:08
Send private message

wellygary:

 

frednz:

 

https://www.evcamel.com/hyundai-kona-electric-launch-details/

 

From the above:

 

Hyundai have announced details of the Hyundai Kona Electric and its exciting for those in the market for a lower cost SUV than the Jaguar I-Pace and the Tesla range.

 

4 models are going to be available as below (prices including deduction of Government plug-in car grant):

 

  • SE 39kWh – from £24,995
  • Premium 39 kWh – from £26,370
  • Premium 64 kWh – from £29,495
  • Premium SE 64 kWh – from £31,795

Hyundai NZ still haven't announced the NZ prices but are sending out emails regularly telling you all the benefits of owning a Kona. The UK Govt plug-in car grant (mentioned above) would probably make it cheaper in the UK than it will be here.

 

 

UK, grant exclusive prices are

 

SE 39kWh - £29,495

 

Premium 39 kWh - £30,870

 

Premium 64 kWh - £33,995

 

Premium SE 64 kWh - £36,295

 

https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/cars/982448/Hyundai-Kona-Electric-UK-price-specs-range

 

The way to calculate VAT rates on new cars in the UK is just plain nuts, dealers are allowed to calculate the tax based on their "profit margin" or 20% of the sale price, I guess they choose whichever is lesser...

 

...at 20% VAT and 15% NZ GST  and a 2:1 exchange rate,  you could possible see a 64Kw for 65K FOB,

 

A base spec 40Kw Leaf in the UK ( exl grants) is 26,500  and if that equates to 60NZD,  at that same margin rates a 34K GBP Kona would be 76 NZD landed.....

 

so 75K ...could be possible.....

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for that information, so the UK Government plug-in EV grant is 4500 pounds which in NZ dollars is almost $9,000. Yes, it does look like the premium SE 64 kWh model will come in at around $70,000 - $80,000, but it would be a bit better if this price range was $60,000 - $70,000 and even then it would be expensive compared to new petrol vehicles that you can get for that price. If the aim of the NZ Government is for more EVs to be sold here, then a subsidy of around $10,000 per vehicle would certainly be a step in the right direction!

 

Incidentally, I'm not sure why Hyundai NZ is delaying releasing the specifications and prices of their NZ Kona EVs when other markets seem to have all this sorted? Would you order a Kona EV without knowing final prices and specifications?


katipo67
3 posts

Wannabe Geek


  #2062630 25-Jul-2018 21:38
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This guy from Norway has recent and quite comprehensive 2 part review with some real world stats on the eKona...

 

 

 

He owns a Tesla Model X and has tested most other common EV's so has a pretty good overall knowledge of how it stacks up.

 

hmmm: Not sure if I've posted the links correctly, if not just do a youtube search for Bjørn Nyland and look at is most recent videos. 


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