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MikeAqua
6895 posts

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  #2062826 26-Jul-2018 10:36
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A purchase-price rebate enables manufacturers to get away with higher EV prices than they would have to in competitive market.

 

If you impose a tariff on ICE imports (new or used) then you don't make EVs cheaper, just ICEs more expensive.  Cars on average cost more and fleet modernising (which also reduces C02 emissions) slows down.

 

What is needed is for EVs to be cheaper to buy.  And have increased range and/or faster charging.  And have the same standard of fit out as ICEVs.  Hyundai is actually pretty good at having a consistent fit-out of safety options across model variants.





Mike


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wellygary
6718 posts

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  #2062835 26-Jul-2018 10:53
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MikeAqua:

 

If you impose a tariff on ICE imports (new or used) then you don't make EVs cheaper, just ICEs more expensive.  Cars on average cost more and fleet modernising (which also reduces C02 emissions) slows down.

 

 

That's not an option NZ can take,

 

We have a bunch of trade agreements that set vehicle import tariffs at Zero,

 

I'm pretty sure we would see retaliation from Japan if we unilaterally imposed tariffs on ICE imports

 

 


MikeAqua
6895 posts

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  #2062879 26-Jul-2018 11:11
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wellygary:

 

MikeAqua:

 

If you impose a tariff on ICE imports (new or used) then you don't make EVs cheaper, just ICEs more expensive.  Cars on average cost more and fleet modernising (which also reduces C02 emissions) slows down.

 

 

That's not an option NZ can take,

 

We have a bunch of trade agreements that set vehicle import tariffs at Zero,

 

I'm pretty sure we would see retaliation from Japan if we unilaterally imposed tariffs on ICE imports

 

 

Agreed.





Mike




graemeh
2078 posts

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  #2063013 26-Jul-2018 15:23
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wellygary:

MikeAqua:


If you impose a tariff on ICE imports (new or used) then you don't make EVs cheaper, just ICEs more expensive.  Cars on average cost more and fleet modernising (which also reduces C02 emissions) slows down.



That's not an option NZ can take,


We have a bunch of trade agreements that set vehicle import tariffs at Zero,


I'm pretty sure we would see retaliation from Japan if we unilaterally imposed tariffs on ICE imports


 



That is easy to fix. Just increase the cost of registration and or vehicle compliance for ICE.

I don't agree with the idea but it could be done quite easily.

Dinga96
113 posts

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  #2063021 26-Jul-2018 15:30
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Thanks for posting the Kona evaluation link Katapo.

 

I watched Bjorn Nylands videos and was a little surprised how critical, or was it nit picking he was of a few aspects of the interior.I thought the consol with the buttons was alright.He seemed to think it was badly designed,even though he could not really explain why he thought that.Its not perfect and it is not very big for an SUV.I guess if size is an issue for you, go get the Kia Niro when it comes out next year. Overall I think I believe this car is a step in the right direction,lets hope they can start increasing production instead of constant rumours of shortages.


gzt

gzt
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  #2063039 26-Jul-2018 16:15
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wellygary: I'm pretty sure we would see retaliation from Japan if we unilaterally imposed tariffs on ICE imports

I really doubt it. A small tarrif which is then used to purchase other goods from Japan? It would not be a problem.

Dinga96
113 posts

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  #2063073 26-Jul-2018 17:25
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Here is another Kona EV Review from Auto Express

 

https://youtu.be/b9Y8Er6pxC8Kona EV Review




afe66
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  #2063464 27-Jul-2018 11:22
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Dinga96:

Thanks for posting the Kona evaluation link Katapo.


I watched Bjorn Nylands videos and was a little surprised how critical, or was it nit picking he was of a few aspects of the interior.I thought the consol with the buttons was alright.He seemed to think it was badly designed,even though he could not really explain why he thought that.Its not perfect and it is not very big for an SUV.I guess if size is an issue for you, go get the Kia Niro when it comes out next year. Overall I think I believe this car is a step in the right direction,lets hope they can start increasing production instead of constant rumours of shortages.



Yes I thought so too.

It's not a Tesla.

It's a small car with small boot and a big battery which costs a lot less. I don't care weather you can sleep in the back or put skis in it.

Would suit my elderly parents who don't carry passengers and would put the back seat down for luggage space on long trips.

Had impressive amount of tech though!

paulchinnz
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  #2064590 29-Jul-2018 13:51
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In a more recent video, Nyland managed to drive 510 km on a single charge over highways at ~90 km/h in 64 kWh model.

 

Some altitude and aircon involved but unclear how much. As he noted, range-wise this is well into what's traditionally been Tesla territory. 

 

Also nice to see that Hyundai's persisted (as per Ioniq) with stating usable battery i.e. there's at least 64 kWh in the battery.


frednz

1431 posts

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  #2064684 29-Jul-2018 19:46
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paulchinnz:

 

In a more recent video, Nyland managed to drive 510 km on a single charge over highways at ~90 km/h in 64 kWh model.

 

Some altitude and aircon involved but unclear how much. As he noted, range-wise this is well into what's traditionally been Tesla territory. 

 

Also nice to see that Hyundai's persisted (as per Ioniq) with stating usable battery i.e. there's at least 64 kWh in the battery.

 

 

https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/hyundai/kona-electric/

 

In the above recent (25 July 2018) review, it mentions that, to achieve Hyundai's claimed range of 300 miles (484 km), "you’d have to be pootling around at predominantly urban speeds to achieve it"!

 

So the reviewer asked what’s it capable of in the real-world and concluded that:

 

"Our drive in and around Oslo included stints on motorways, and even at those heady speeds it was still indicating a battery reserve of 220 miles (355 km). For comparison, a 40kWh Nissan Leaf will typically manage 155 miles (250km) at similar speeds."

 

The review also stated that:

 

"By and large the controls are too light and lacking in sensation to be close to sating keener drivers’ appetite for feedback – instead, the Hyundai’s best appreciated when driven with consideration. In other words, be gentle with it."

 

I think it's a good idea to be gentle with any EV if you want the best range from it, so this criticism wouldn't worry me too much. And an "around-town" range of nearly 500 km, might even make it worth it's likely price tag of nearly $80,000, well, for wealthy people anyway.

 

But I guess you have to keep in mind that a pure electric 33kWh 94Ah BMW i3 costs about $77,000 and it only has a range of around 200km, so even though the i3 may be more highly regarded than the Kona, its range is only about half that of the Kona, so I think I would pick the Kona over the i3 purely because of its superior range. Now when is BMW going to produce a 64 kWh i3?


gehenna
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  #2068219 5-Aug-2018 12:00
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Got this yesterday from my local dealer:  "The pricing of the Kona EV will be $74 990 for the entry, and $79 990 + ORC for the Elite model.  Stock is basically sold out until the end of the year."

 

Bugger that.  


paulchinnz
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  #2068229 5-Aug-2018 12:55
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What did the dealer mean by entry - is that the 39 kWh model, or 64 kWh with lower trim than 'Elite'?


gehenna
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  #2068273 5-Aug-2018 16:03
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@paulchinnz i suspect the latter but haven't confirmed yet. 


mattgreen
133 posts

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  #2068868 6-Aug-2018 17:07
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gehenna:

 

Got this yesterday from my local dealer:  "The pricing of the Kona EV will be $74 990 for the entry, and $79 990 + ORC for the Elite model.  Stock is basically sold out until the end of the year."

 

Bugger that.  

 

 

Wow $38k premium over the 4WD 1.6T Elite with RRP of $41990. That's an early adopter premium I'm just not willing to pay. With the ICE version at 6.7l/100km it's going to take a long time to save that back on petrol and the higher starting point just means an even bigger depreciation hit for buying new. A Gen 2 Leaf is a far more attractive prospect. Heck even a parallel imported 40kWh Gen 3 Leaf is looking better at ~$60k. 


wellygary
6718 posts

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  #2068869 6-Aug-2018 17:13
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mattgreen:

 

Wow $38k premium over the 4WD 1.6T Elite with RRP of $41990. That's an early adopter premium I'm just not willing to pay. With the ICE .....

 

A Gen 2 Leaf is a far more attractive prospect. Heck even a parallel imported 40kWh Gen 3 Leaf is looking better at ~$60k. 

 

 

I suspect that's the prime reason there are 300 2nd hand leafs a month arriving in NZ.....


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