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mdf

mdf
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  #2100077 2-Oct-2018 14:10
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Linuxluver:

 

<snip> I drove a 400km+ Chevy Bolt EV for a couple of weeks in Canada recently. This is our future........range just isn't an issue. 

 

 

Would be keen for your impressions on the Bolt. I really wish there were RHD plans for this. Personally, I'd prefer a Vauxhall Griffin badge and a station wagon (cough, "estate") body but would accept a lion if I had to.


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wellygary
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  #2100084 2-Oct-2018 14:15
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mdf:

 

Linuxluver:

 

<snip> I drove a 400km+ Chevy Bolt EV for a couple of weeks in Canada recently. This is our future........range just isn't an issue. 

 

 

Would be keen for your impressions on the Bolt. I really wish there were RHD plans for this. Personally, I'd prefer a Vauxhall Griffin badge and a station wagon (cough, "estate") body but would accept a lion if I had to.

 

 

In Euro-land it is branded as an Opel, and Holden wanted to bring a few here to demonstrate,   but I guess the powers that be said no...

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/98919377/holden-asks-why-cant-we-import-lefthand-drive-bolt-electric-vehicles

 

 


GV27
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  #2100086 2-Oct-2018 14:17
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MikeB4:

 

What about a 20% levy on the sale of ICE vehicles to fund a subsidy on EVs that way funding is not being taken from other areas of Government spending.

 

 

So a tradie pays 20% extra on a work ute (just a few extra thousand, no big deal) as a punishment for not buying an electric ute instead, which they can't buy because no one makes one yet?

 

Families buying people movers effectively end up paying a 20% tax to underwrite people who can afford Tesla Model Xs? 

 

Can't see any problems there. 




MikeAqua
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  #2100089 2-Oct-2018 14:21
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Linuxluver:

 

Towing a boat? Fine....if you MUST own a boat and tow it around the place, you need something bigger. I don't need that. Boats are not "practical". ;-) 

 

 

Boats are very practical when the bach is water-only access.

 

https://www.google.co.nz/maps/place/41%C2%B013'58.1%22S+173%C2%B057'54.5%22E/@-41.232801,173.9629785,352m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m6!3m5!1s0x0:0x0!7e2!8m2!3d-41.2328009!4d173.9651497?hl=en 





Mike


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  #2100094 2-Oct-2018 14:26
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GV27:

 

MikeB4:

 

What about a 20% levy on the sale of ICE vehicles to fund a subsidy on EVs that way funding is not being taken from other areas of Government spending.

 

 

So a tradie pays 20% extra on a work ute (just a few extra thousand, no big deal) as a punishment for not buying an electric ute instead, which they can't buy because no one makes one yet?

 

Families buying people movers effectively end up paying a 20% tax to underwrite people who can afford Tesla Model Xs? 

 

Can't see any problems there. 

 

 

There are alternatives and the tradie still has his/her ICE until it needs replacing. It wouldnt be a situation of tomorrow sorry dude your Hilux is off the road. However we have to do something, we cannot ring a diety and say ummm sorry we stuffed up can you bilud a new planet for us. This is  it the only viable home we have and time is ticking. 

 

Also you do realise there are alternatives to Teslas right? they are not the only vehicles available. Also, if Governments set a deadlines on ICE production and sales you can guarantee that Ford, PSA, Toyota, Nissan, etc will quickly bring on replacements.


GV27
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  #2100097 2-Oct-2018 14:33
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MikeB4:

 

GV27:

 

MikeB4:

 

What about a 20% levy on the sale of ICE vehicles to fund a subsidy on EVs that way funding is not being taken from other areas of Government spending.

 

 

So a tradie pays 20% extra on a work ute (just a few extra thousand, no big deal) as a punishment for not buying an electric ute instead, which they can't buy because no one makes one yet?

 

Families buying people movers effectively end up paying a 20% tax to underwrite people who can afford Tesla Model Xs? 

 

Can't see any problems there. 

 

 

There are alternatives and the tradie still has his/her ICE until it needs replacing. It wouldnt be a situation of tomorrow sorry dude your Hilux is off the road. However we have to do something, we cannot ring a diety and say ummm sorry we stuffed up can you bilud a new planet for us. This is it it the only viable home we have and time is ticking. 

 

Also you do realise there are alternatives to Teslas right? they are not the only vehicles available. Also, if Governments set a deadlines on ICE production and sales you can guarantee that Ford, PSA, Toyota, Nissan, etc will quickly bring on replacements.

 

 

It really depends on who has the ICE; if a vehicle is leased then what do you do when the lease runs out? In many cases, you don't have a car at the end of it.

 

I commend your desire to do something and I'll be swapping my Mini for an EV one as soon as I can afford it. But until they make or sell that vehicle, that's not something I can do. We are a flea biting the bum of the global economy; no one is rushing out a new EV platform because New Zealand decides to ban ICE sales.

 

You seem really keen for us to make big sweeping arbitrary calls in the name of the greater good, but as with most well-intentioned environmental policies, the people who are least able to adjust their lives once they come in (i.e. poor people) end up paying most of the cost.


MikeB4
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  #2100101 2-Oct-2018 14:37
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Simply put a start needs to be made as the alternative is catastrophic. The luxury of procrastination left us a long time back.




MikeAqua
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  #2100124 2-Oct-2018 15:06
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wellygary:

 

frankv:

 

Perhaps pulling a boat wouldn't be such a big deal with an EV?

 

EVs have lots of torque so should be able to pull the boat OK. And with regenerative braking, a fair amount of the energy used in pulling the boat up a hill will be recovered going down the other side.

 

 

Model X has a trailer mode :)

 

Torque yes.  Range ...

 

The AA tested one towing a small boat (1200kg incl trailer) and estimated a range of 200km per charge - 35km used 17%.

 

https://www.aa.co.nz/cars/buying-a-car/towing-reviews/tesla-model-x-2018-towing-review/

 

Put a decent boat on there and it would get worse. 

 

I read a post by guy called Max Kennedy in Florida towing a 2,200kg boat and he estimated a <160km safe working range.

 

In NZ it would be worse as a 2,000kg boat and trailer legally requires brakes (disc brakes).   It's doing a lot of it's own braking and that's energy the Tesla can't recover.

 

I'm not sure I'd risk a Tesla X beach launching a boat either.





Mike


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  #2100138 2-Oct-2018 15:24
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MikeAqua:

 

wellygary:

 

frankv:

 

Perhaps pulling a boat wouldn't be such a big deal with an EV?

 

EVs have lots of torque so should be able to pull the boat OK. And with regenerative braking, a fair amount of the energy used in pulling the boat up a hill will be recovered going down the other side.

 

 

Model X has a trailer mode :)

 

Torque yes.  Range ...

 

The AA tested one towing a small boat (1200kg incl trailer) and estimated a range of 200km per charge - 35km used 17%.

 

https://www.aa.co.nz/cars/buying-a-car/towing-reviews/tesla-model-x-2018-towing-review/

 

Put a decent boat on there and it would get worse. 

 

I read a post by guy called Max Kennedy in Florida towing a 2,200kg boat and he estimated a <160km safe working range.

 

In NZ it would be worse as a 2,000kg boat and trailer legally requires brakes (disc brakes).   It's doing a lot of it's own braking and that's energy the Tesla can't recover.

 

I'm not sure I'd risk a Tesla X beach launching a boat either.

 

 

Side note, I hate beach launching


GV27
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  #2100140 2-Oct-2018 15:28
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MikeB4:

 

Simply put a start needs to be made as the alternative is catastrophic. The luxury of procrastination left us a long time back.

 

 

Why though? What is NZ taxing ICE sales going to achieve that other countries aren't already influencing by virtue of being big enough markets to matter (e.g. EU, California, etc). 

 

The outcome of NZ not doing something is exactly the same as the outcome of us taxing the hell out of poor people just trying to live a semi-normal life.


MikeAqua
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  #2100181 2-Oct-2018 16:05
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MikeB4:

 

Side note, I hate beach launching

 



 

It's the retrieving that I hate!

 

If anything is going to go wrong it'll be pulling the boat full of wet gear up the beach.





Mike


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  #2100182 2-Oct-2018 16:08
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MikeAqua:

 

MikeB4:

 

Side note, I hate beach launching

 



 

It's the retrieving that I hate!

 

If anything is going to go wrong it'll be pulling the boat full of wet gear up the beach.

 

 

Yep and waves are evil and know when to time their hit


frankv
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  #2100186 2-Oct-2018 16:15
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GV27:

 

I commend your desire to do something and I'll be swapping my Mini for an EV one as soon as I can afford it. But until they make or sell that vehicle, that's not something I can do. We are a flea biting the bum of the global economy; no one is rushing out a new EV platform because New Zealand decides to ban ICE sales.

 

You seem really keen for us to make big sweeping arbitrary calls in the name of the greater good, but as with most well-intentioned environmental policies, the people who are least able to adjust their lives once they come in (i.e. poor people) end up paying most of the cost.

 

 

Much the same opinion myself.

 

But NZ is somewhat of a laggard wrt EVs. Several countries have already set deadlines for ending ICE sales. Whilst we may be a flea, we are travelling along with some largish dogs. And, dependant as we are on the climate we have, and therefore not wanting it to change too much or too soon, we will gain more (or lose less) than most countries by limiting climate change.

 

Regarding the affordability of EVs: anyone who owns a house probably has the resources to buy an EV now if they want. When the total cost of ownership (including the cost of borrowing, and of new technology risk) falls to less than the ownership of an ICE, people will switch. If the Govt shifts that tipping point with some incentives, then the switch will happen sooner.

 

I agree that it will be the poor who won't get the direct economic benefit. But they *will* get the benefit of our farms continuing to be able to produce and sell food. Also, in *every* case, any new technology will disproportionately benefit rich vs poor, simply because being rich gives you choices and opportunities, including the opportunity to invest in cost-saving technologies. The correct answer is not to worry about this disproportionate effect of subsidies, but to redistribute some of the wealth from the rich to the poor. But that's another thread entirely...

 

The poor may also benefit from a side-effect to the uptake of EVs; the price of electricity (& batteries) will effectively cap the price of petrol. Any attempt by OPEC or Big Oil to raise prices will cause more people to switch to EVs. Running a car on petrol would cost about the same as electricity.

 

 


MikeB4
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  #2100189 2-Oct-2018 16:19
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mdf:

 

Linuxluver:

 

<snip> I drove a 400km+ Chevy Bolt EV for a couple of weeks in Canada recently. This is our future........range just isn't an issue. 

 

 

Would be keen for your impressions on the Bolt. I really wish there were RHD plans for this. Personally, I'd prefer a Vauxhall Griffin badge and a station wagon (cough, "estate") body but would accept a lion if I had to.

 

 

I am eagerly waiting for the new Nissan Leaf to arrive here. Although the Bolt would be attractive if only it were not a GM product.


tdgeek
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  #2100312 2-Oct-2018 19:40
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The theme here, is why would we incentives ski bunnies to buy a new SUV. Thats bad. Its also bad for EV, EXCEPT the purpose of an EV is climate change. 


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