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Aredwood
3885 posts

Uber Geek


  #2100368 2-Oct-2018 21:46

MikeB4:

GV27:


MikeB4:


What about a 20% levy on the sale of ICE vehicles to fund a subsidy on EVs that way funding is not being taken from other areas of Government spending.



So a tradie pays 20% extra on a work ute (just a few extra thousand, no big deal) as a punishment for not buying an electric ute instead, which they can't buy because no one makes one yet?


Families buying people movers effectively end up paying a 20% tax to underwrite people who can afford Tesla Model Xs? 


Can't see any problems there. 



There are alternatives and the tradie still has his/her ICE until it needs replacing. It wouldnt be a situation of tomorrow sorry dude your Hilux is off the road. However we have to do something, we cannot ring a diety and say ummm sorry we stuffed up can you bilud a new planet for us. This is  it the only viable home we have and time is ticking. 


Also you do realise there are alternatives to Teslas right? they are not the only vehicles available. Also, if Governments set a deadlines on ICE production and sales you can guarantee that Ford, PSA, Toyota, Nissan, etc will quickly bring on replacements.



How many other RHD countries are Utes popular in? I can only think of NZ, Australia and South Africa. Apart from various 3rd world countries. Sales of RHD Utes will be tiny, compared to sales of LHD Utes (pickups) in the USA alone.

Also telling, is that Tesla hasn't even announced, yet alone sells an electric Ute. Despite how large that market is in the USA. Dodge has only quite recently started making and selling a RHD version of their pickup. VW is also a quite recent entry to the market. GM just hasn't bothered (unless you include the Commodore Ute that you can't buy anymore). It is unlikely that we will be getting suitable EV Utes anytime soon. When the largest car manufacturers from both America and Europe have mostly ignored us in relation to selling ICE Utes.

Utes already hold their value far better than cars. Any ban will just make them far more valuable still. And will mean that they will remain on the road for far longer.





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MikeAqua
6895 posts

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  #2100456 3-Oct-2018 09:11
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There are EV vans - a couple in Nelson have a little BEV panel van for their dry-cleaning business.  Dry cleaning is a low density payload.  The delivery run in 75km, and the vehicle has range of 120km.

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/100487826/nelson-laundry-business-makes-nobrainer-choice-to-buy-electric-van

 

The big vans are rather disappointing.  For example the LGV e-van has a 192km range with a 500kg payload (it rated for 1,00kg) and a barebones feature package - compared to it's ICEV counterparts.





Mike


wellygary
6718 posts

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  #2100477 3-Oct-2018 09:34
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MikeAqua:

 

There are EV vans - a couple in Nelson have a little BEV panel van for their dry-cleaning business.  Dry cleaning is a low density payload.  The delivery run in 75km, and the vehicle has range of 120km.

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/100487826/nelson-laundry-business-makes-nobrainer-choice-to-buy-electric-van

 

 

Dig far enough into the Nissan van and you find its essentially a dressed up leaf  ( not that this is a bad thing,)

 

And just like the leaf in 2018 the E-NV got a bigger battery  allowing "up to 301 km on a single charge." - although this is from a Euro press release so its likely NDEC and not really realistic ...

 

https://www.autocar.co.nz/commercial-news-app/nissan-begins-global-delivery-of-upgraded-e-nv200-van

 

 




frednz

1431 posts

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  #2100510 3-Oct-2018 09:44
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Perhaps we need Government incentives to help EV owners with older vehicles replace or refurbish their batteries. But, this can be quite expensive, as discussed in the following article:

 

http://evtalk.co.nz/blue-cars-provides-ev-services/

 

Blue Cars is also building new batteries or refurbishing old batteries with new cells and is in the process of working out next stage development, possibly at a commercial level.

 

“Some EV owners have unrealistic expectations of what their EV batteries will cost, like $2000-$3000 – I don’t think they realise,” Alexander says. “It’s more like $20,000 to $30,000 in many cases."

He says rebalancing batteries helps keep some EVs going for many more years before the batteries need replacing.

 

So petrol car owners who are rushing out to buy "cheap" EVs (i.e. Nissan Leafs) because of the high price of petrol, need to take into account that, the older the EV, the less range it does and the nearer you are getting to having your old battery refurbished or replaced.

 

Because of the world-wide shortage of EVs, keeping older EVs going longer is one way of seeing that as many people as possible own EVs.

 

 


MikeAqua
6895 posts

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  #2100511 3-Oct-2018 09:44
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wellygary:

 

And just like the leaf in 2018 the E-NV got a bigger battery  allowing "up to 301 km on a single charge." - although this is from a Euro press release so its likely NDEC and not really realistic ...

 

 

In my experience of vehicle fuel economy the "up to" figure is only attained when the vehicle has just been waxed and is driven by a unicorn with a mass of <50kg, directly under a rainbow on a road made of fairy dust. 

 

And I'm not just talking about VWs laughing.

 

I assume electric is no different and I discount range by 25%.

 

There should be separate rating called LFD - lead footed driver.





Mike


mdf

mdf
3078 posts

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  #2100679 3-Oct-2018 12:11
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MikeAqua:

 

wellygary:

 

And just like the leaf in 2018 the E-NV got a bigger battery  allowing "up to 301 km on a single charge." - although this is from a Euro press release so its likely NDEC and not really realistic ...

 

 

In my experience of vehicle fuel economy the "up to" figure is only attained when the vehicle has just been waxed and is driven by a unicorn with a mass of <50kg, directly under a rainbow on a road made of fairy dust. 

 

And I'm not just talking about VWs laughing.

 

I assume electric is no different and I discount range by 25%.

 

There should be separate rating called LFD - lead footed driver.

 

 

flat road made of fairy dust.

 

I figure I should discount range by 20% (?) for living in Wellington with all them hills.

 

I do quite like (at least in principle, I've not driven one) the Hyundai idea of paddle shifting regenerative braking levels. Steep downhill: turn up the regenerative braking. Don't need to touch the brake pedal.

 

In theory.


Dinga96
113 posts

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  #2100782 3-Oct-2018 13:53
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Aredwood:
MikeB4:

 

GV27:

 

 

 

MikeB4:

 

 

 

What about a 20% levy on the sale of ICE vehicles to fund a subsidy on EVs that way funding is not being taken from other areas of Government spending.

 

 

 

 

 

 

So a tradie pays 20% extra on a work ute (just a few extra thousand, no big deal) as a punishment for not buying an electric ute instead, which they can't buy because no one makes one yet?

 

 

 

Families buying people movers effectively end up paying a 20% tax to underwrite people who can afford Tesla Model Xs? 

 

 

 

Can't see any problems there. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

There are alternatives and the tradie still has his/her ICE until it needs replacing. It wouldnt be a situation of tomorrow sorry dude your Hilux is off the road. However we have to do something, we cannot ring a diety and say ummm sorry we stuffed up can you bilud a new planet for us. This is  it the only viable home we have and time is ticking. 

 

 

 

Also you do realise there are alternatives to Teslas right? they are not the only vehicles available. Also, if Governments set a deadlines on ICE production and sales you can guarantee that Ford, PSA, Toyota, Nissan, etc will quickly bring on replacements.

 



How many other RHD countries are Utes popular in? I can only think of NZ, Australia and South Africa. Apart from various 3rd world countries. Sales of RHD Utes will be tiny, compared to sales of LHD Utes (pickups) in the USA alone.

Also telling, is that Tesla hasn't even announced, yet alone sells an electric Ute. Despite how large that market is in the USA. Dodge has only quite recently started making and selling a RHD version of their pickup. VW is also a quite recent entry to the market. GM just hasn't bothered (unless you include the Commodore Ute that you can't buy anymore). It is unlikely that we will be getting suitable EV Utes anytime soon. When the largest car manufacturers from both America and Europe have mostly ignored us in relation to selling ICE Utes.

Utes already hold their value far better than cars. Any ban will just make them far more valuable still. And will mean that they will remain on the road for far longer.

 

Agree, replacing utes with evs is going to take longer to phase in than the rest of the ice fleet.There is this ev ute called the Voltra

 

 https://www.voltra.net.au/about-us/.

 

Designed for the mining sector in Aussie to replace diesel utes.There is an opportunity here to start converting utes to bevs.With the money the government offered  to help improve the uptake.Its called the contestable fund I believe.




MikeAqua
6895 posts

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  #2100799 3-Oct-2018 14:10
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Dinga96:

 

There is this ev ute called the Voltra

 

 https://www.voltra.net.au/about-us/.

 

Designed for the mining sector in Aussie to replace diesel utes.There is an opportunity here to start converting utes to bevs.With the money the government offered  to help improve the uptake.Its called the contestable fund I believe.

 

 

Road legal? 

 

Based on a quick look ... body shape looks familiar i.e might be an old design for a popular ute type.





Mike


wellygary
6718 posts

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  #2100843 3-Oct-2018 15:09
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MikeAqua:

 

Dinga96:

 

There is this ev ute called the Voltra

 

 https://www.voltra.net.au/about-us/.

 

Designed for the mining sector in Aussie to replace diesel utes.There is an opportunity here to start converting utes to bevs.With the money the government offered  to help improve the uptake.Its called the contestable fund I believe.

 

 

Road legal? 

 

Based on a quick look ... body shape looks familiar i.e might be an old design for a popular ute type.

 

 

As per their website, they are converted Toyota Land cruiser 70s...

 

They are being heavily marketed to the Mining industry in OZ, which likely means they will not be cheap, ( Nothing in the Mining industry is)

 

Given the underlying vehicle was road legal, its likely it would not be too hard to make one road ligit.

 

 


MikeAqua
6895 posts

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  #2100863 3-Oct-2018 15:47
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wellygary:

 

As per their website, they are converted Toyota Land cruiser 70s...

 

 

Should be a beast then





Mike


MikeB4
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  #2100892 3-Oct-2018 16:55
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I have always considered Utes as not being that great for Tradies given their restricted load capacity. Vans are generally a better choice and most of the tradies I know use vans and those who need more use light trucks.


Dinga96
113 posts

Master Geek


  #2100896 3-Oct-2018 17:16
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MikeB4:

 

I have always considered Utes as not being that great for Tradies given their restricted load capacity. Vans are generally a better choice and most of the tradies I know use vans and those who need more use light trucks.

 

 

The main user of the Utility vehicle  is the  builder .They can carry more crew than a van and are better/more convient for carting timber than a van.I agree the Van is better on most other tasks.


Linuxluver
5797 posts

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  #2100905 3-Oct-2018 17:55
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ockel:

 

The alternative is to require all vehicles to have catalytic converters and DPF's to significantly reduce vehicle emissions (80-90%).  Banging on about EV's that suit a small minority of people and/or transferring wealth from the taxpayer to automakers is not helpful.  

 

It would be cheaper to fund cc's and dpf's from the consolidated fund than to subsidise the middle/upper class to buy EV's.  

 

 

You forgot about climate change. A catalytic converter does zero for carbon emissions. A deisel particulate filter also does zero about carbon emissions.

People keep doing that: forgetting about the BIGGEST problem.

Your ideology is getting in the way of practically addressing transport carbon emissions. Blinkers can kill....and will in time. Take the blinkers off. 

You've also ignored the part about giving cars way to people who need them.....while moaning about helping the people who CAN afford cars to buy electric instead.

I hear the anti-incentive ideology and the class jealousy....not I don't see any practical solutions for the actual problem: carbon emissions.

How you you reduce carbon emissions......given catalytic converters and DPFs do noting at all to address carbon emissions? Do you see any solutions possible within your anti-incentive / class jealousy paradigm?





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Linuxluver
5797 posts

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  #2100907 3-Oct-2018 18:04
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mdf:

 

Linuxluver:

 

<snip> I drove a 400km+ Chevy Bolt EV for a couple of weeks in Canada recently. This is our future........range just isn't an issue. 

 

 

Would be keen for your impressions on the Bolt. I really wish there were RHD plans for this. Personally, I'd prefer a Vauxhall Griffin badge and a station wagon (cough, "estate") body but would accept a lion if I had to.

 

 

The Hyundai Kona is basically the same power train and battery as the Chevy Bolt EV: 64kWh battery and 150kw motor....also from LG Chem and with design support from LG Chem.  

 

If you want a RHD equivalent of the Chevy Bolt EV, then the Kona EV is the perfect match in NZ and you can order it today.

As for the car generally, it's a bit smaller than a LEAF, but bigger than a Renault ZOE. The longest single leg I did was from Port Severn, Ontario (ChargePoint DC fast charger there) to Azilda, Ontario, just west of Sudbury. I started on 85% and finished on 21% and covered 287km. There no fast chargers in that stretch other than a Tesla Supercharger at Parry Sound, so it's fair to say the only two cars that could make that drive easily would be the Bolt EV and a Tesla. All other batteries are too small.

I was impressed. Range anxiety just no longer exists when there is a charger every 40km and your car can do 400km+. It's just a car. 

Charging was interesting. The Bolt EV goes at 55kw up to 58% then drops to about 38kw to about 75% then slows to 22kw up to about 85%.....then drops to 16kw. The overall effect is a farily quick charge to 80% as you really only slow down significantly after 75%. But it's a bigger battery.....so adding 60% charge (20% to 80%) will take about 45 minutes.  





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I've been on Geekzone over 15 years..... Time flies.... 


Linuxluver
5797 posts

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  #2100909 3-Oct-2018 18:08
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wellygary:

 

In Euro-land it is branded as an Opel, and Holden wanted to bring a few here to demonstrate,   but I guess the powers that be said no...

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/98919377/holden-asks-why-cant-we-import-lefthand-drive-bolt-electric-vehicles

 

 

GM sold Opel so the Ampere-E basically became unavailable.

They were never going to do RHD for this model.....so that's probably why they didn't bother.





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I've been on Geekzone over 15 years..... Time flies.... 


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