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tdgeek
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  #2181919 18-Feb-2019 10:46
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That's a very general issue. I thought it was everyone was working hard on EV except NZF. But its everyone is working hard on Zero Carbon Act, issues with NZF and National and getting it set as bipartisan so it wont be changed as other acts have been

 

If this went through today, I see no relevance to EV stuff, so I still feel its gone quiet. As too hard as many think its all about huge free money for me and my consumer EV, it really needs to be about businesses getting incentivised, bit not by subsidies


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afe66
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  #2181922 18-Feb-2019 10:55
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I'd argue that nzers like to think they are green because we live in a younger country so their is more of a disparity between how we see ourselves compared to what we actually do compared with overseas countries.

Our stand on nuclear in 1980's was an aberration and not reflect what we actually believe.

ockel
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  #2181929 18-Feb-2019 11:07
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afe66: I'd argue that nzers like to think they are green because we live in a younger country so their is more of a disparity between how we see ourselves compared to what we actually do compared with overseas countries.

Our stand on nuclear in 1980's was an aberration and not reflect what we actually believe.

 

Our nuclear stance in the 1980's was a series of unplanned statements that led us to declare nuclear-free.  It had almost zero bearing on the country (excepting visits from US warships - woopie).  It was a hollow statement that ended with no real change.  This has the same feel of rhetoric.  




tripper1000
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  #2181955 18-Feb-2019 12:00
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You are right about unplanned statements, and I wondered if J.A.'s EV announcements at the Climate Change Summit were just that, as they were an entirely different tone to usual. Off topic but Politically speaking, our Nuclear Free Stance had nothing to do with Nuke's and every thing to do with anti-Americanism and a wave of popular-ism, not substance. Lange whipped up "anti-nuclear" sentiment after he had sent a NZ Navy officer to Hawaii to choose a nuclear free ship to visit us.  The USA naturally saw it as a double cross, because while their official policy was "neither confirm nor deny" they had no desire to undermine a the N.Z. government and as a compromise had welcomed a NZ govt representative to inspect their fleet and select a ship that was politically acceptable.  


Bung
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  #2182022 18-Feb-2019 14:49
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tripper1000: Lange whipped up "anti-nuclear" sentiment after he had sent a NZ Navy officer to Hawaii to choose a nuclear free ship to visit us.  The USA naturally saw it as a double cross, because while their official policy was "neither confirm nor deny" they had no desire to undermine a the N.Z. government and as a compromise had welcomed a NZ govt representative to inspect their fleet and select a ship that was politically acceptable.  



Lange was on holiday in the Islands leaving Palmer who knew nothing of the arrangement. It was Palmer that turned down the Buchanan. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11785166

wellygary
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  #2182033 18-Feb-2019 15:16
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Bung:
tripper1000: Lange whipped up "anti-nuclear" sentiment after he had sent a NZ Navy officer to Hawaii to choose a nuclear free ship to visit us.  The USA naturally saw it as a double cross, because while their official policy was "neither confirm nor deny" they had no desire to undermine a the N.Z. government and as a compromise had welcomed a NZ govt representative to inspect their fleet and select a ship that was politically acceptable.  


Lange was on holiday in the Islands leaving Palmer who knew nothing of the arrangement. It was Palmer that turned down the Buchanan. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11785166

 

That's a little unfair, in truth he was on an official visit to NZ's last remaining colony, Tokelau.... [which like now is only reachable via a 2 day boat trip from Samoa]

 

 

 

... although he might as well have been on a "diplomatic mission to Alderan" as there was totally no way to contact him.... {and if anyone tells me this was a coincidence- I have a bridge to sell you]


tripper1000
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  #2182047 18-Feb-2019 15:23
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Ms Pope, initially Mr Lange's chief speechwriter, wrote to a newspaper in 1994 saying the PM had not known about the Buchanan until he got back from Tokelau, but she had since acknowledged that was not so.

 

It is like admiring someones 7 litre V8 Ford Galaxy, inviting them over for dinner then when they arrive, slamming the door in their face because they didn't arrive in a EV.




frednz

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  #2228929 1-May-2019 19:27
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https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/112370005/ev-advocates-unimpressed-as-date-slips-for-cabinet-to-consider-new-incentives#comments

 

From the above article:

 

National Party environment spokesman Scott Simpson said there was "huge frustration" within the EV community at the lack of promised progress from the Government.

 

"The expectation was there would be something in the Budget, but it is not looking that way."

 

Simpson said he bought an EV last year but the uncertainty was dissuading others.

 

"Because there is an expectation among people considering buying an EV that some kind of subsidy or incentive is going to be introduced, people considering making a purchase have delayed waiting for an outcome.

 

"The lack of delivery has actually created a slowing-down of EV take-up – the opposite of the intention."  

 

It's disappointing that EV incentives may not now be announced in the Budget, which is due on 30 May.

 

I agree that the uncertainty is unsettling for potential EV buyers so don't you think it would be good if the Government could tell us now whether or not EV incentives are due to be implemented in the very near future?

 

This article from "Drive Electric" is well worth reading on this topic.


tdgeek
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  #2228933 1-May-2019 19:35
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frednz:

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/112370005/ev-advocates-unimpressed-as-date-slips-for-cabinet-to-consider-new-incentives#comments

 

From the above article:

 

National Party environment spokesman Scott Simpson said there was "huge frustration" within the EV community at the lack of promised progress from the Government.

 

"The expectation was there would be something in the Budget, but it is not looking that way."

 

Simpson said he bought an EV last year but the uncertainty was dissuading others.

 

"Because there is an expectation among people considering buying an EV that some kind of subsidy or incentive is going to be introduced, people considering making a purchase have delayed waiting for an outcome.

 

"The lack of delivery has actually created a slowing-down of EV take-up – the opposite of the intention."  

 

It's disappointing that EV incentives may not now be announced in the Budget, which is due on 30 May.

 

I agree that the uncertainty is unsettling for potential EV buyers so don't you think it would be good if the Government could tell us now whether or not EV incentives are due to be implemented in the very near future?

 

This article from "Drive Electric" is well worth reading on this topic.

 

 

Who will pay for your $10K (assumption) subsidy?


tdgeek
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  #2228935 1-May-2019 19:37
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This was my post in the Coalition bagging thread

 

"Gilbert said the apparent lack of progress from the Government was "disappointing when signals were that this was 'the year of delivery'".

 

 

 

Correct

 

 

 

"The former National government set a target in 2017 of increasing that to 64,000 by 2021, but Gilbert said that was dead in the water."

 

 

 

Also correct

 

 

 

Its a political hot potato, no one wants to own it as it will hurt them. Both parties have promised but it's silent. Kiwis hate taxes. The Fuel Tax is actually a levy, temporary, to assist AKL faster tracking its transport needs, I am in favour of that, but no one supports it, as its a tax. Taxes are evil.

 

 

 

Now, if we don't want the Fuel Tax to support AKL transport infrastructure (and lets face it, AKL is key for NZ), how will we do with a Fuel Tax that assists people who can already afford it, to buy a $60,000 new car, while the rest of the populous pay for it by a fuel tax???  The current word is $10k, and a feebate. Many cannot afford a new car, they pay for someone else's new EV, some have a use case that EV cannot provide, so they pay for someone elses new EV. If you can afford a 60k+ EV the 10k is  not an incentive. It maybe for some who can stretch to 50k, but lets be realistic, its free money. And every ICE motorist pays for it, as they are poor, or are not poor but cannot afford it, or whose use case is not EV. 

 

 

 

I'd like an EV, I can afford it, I will buy when its worthwhile financially. Its a bit like solar PV, yes it WILL save money, but it costs too much to save it.

 

 

 

I'd support a business subsidy. Not 10k, but a 100% depreciation on it. And tax free Gain on Sale IF the business replaced that EV with a new one. That also supports the growth of used EV's. 

 

 

 

So, I get the sentiment, but both party's talked the talk, but cannot afford to go for it. 

 

 

 

It would be nice if there was a solution that got more people into an EV, maybe scouring the globe for used ones. Are there ones in China (who lead EV)? Not sure. We need to be creative maybe look at a subsidy that hets paid back over time, saving petrol costs bit not making it a taxpayer ball and chain. Plus there is Hydro to be looked at. I can imagine if EV went through a spike of sales, lakes were low, power usage costs went up, blame EV's

 

 

 

Its a 10 year plan


jjnz1
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  #2228942 1-May-2019 19:58
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I am wanting to buy an EV, especially with the Model 3 due to be released in NZ in the next few days.

I certainly would like to see a $10k rebate - where does it come from you ask - the taxes I pay which are a lot!.

I think tidying up the planet needs to start somewhere, and unfortunately that somewhere is generally via subsidies which stimulate demand.

More demand means long term prices become more affordable.

Think of it like a chicken or the egg type scenario

You want affordable EVs, let's get EVs mainstream in the auto market.

tdgeek
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  #2228949 1-May-2019 20:13
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jjnz1: I am wanting to buy an EV, especially with the Model 3 due to be released in NZ in the next few days.

I certainly would like to see a $10k rebate - where does it come from you ask - the taxes I pay which are a lot!.

I think tidying up the planet needs to start somewhere, and unfortunately that somewhere is generally via subsidies which stimulate demand.

More demand means long term prices become more affordable.

Think of it like a chicken or the egg type scenario

You want affordable EVs, let's get EVs mainstream in the auto market.

 

No no no. They dont come from taxes. Sorting out the AKL transport network doesn't come from taxes, it is assisted by EXTRA taxes. And thats ok. Supporting your EV will come from extra taxes on me and every other ICE driver. 

 

Tidying up the planet will come from businesses being incentivised to get EV's. 

 

More demand? No. The extra cost of EV's are R+D recovery, thats years off

 

 


frednz

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  #2228962 1-May-2019 20:46
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jjnz1: I am wanting to buy an EV, especially with the Model 3 due to be released in NZ in the next few days.

I certainly would like to see a $10k rebate - where does it come from you ask - the taxes I pay which are a lot!.

I think tidying up the planet needs to start somewhere, and unfortunately that somewhere is generally via subsidies which stimulate demand.

More demand means long term prices become more affordable.

Think of it like a chicken or the egg type scenario

You want affordable EVs, let's get EVs mainstream in the auto market.

 

At the moment, dealers are making it pretty clear they can't meet the current demand for new EVs, even though prices are sky high and the delivery time can be anywhere between 6 and 12 months.

 

So, if we did stimulate demand, where are the new EVs going to come from when NZ is just regarded as a backwater by the major manufacturers who are concentrating on supplying the big overseas markets where EV incentives and emissions targets have stimulated demand considerably?

 

Anyway, the main thing NZ EV buyers want at the moment is just some definite indication from Government whether or not there will be incentives and WHEN these are likely to be announced! Just stringing us along isn't the way to do things in this "year of delivery"!

 

And as for paying for the incentives, just drop GST on new EV's, nobody would even notice this had been done because the number of new EVs being purchased isn't that great because of the very high prices and long delivery times.

 

 


Delphinus
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  #2229009 1-May-2019 21:20
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tdgeek:

 

Now, if we don't want the Fuel Tax to support AKL transport infrastructure (and lets face it, AKL is key for NZ), how will we do with a Fuel Tax that assists people who can already afford it, to buy a $60,000 new car, while the rest of the populous pay for it by a fuel tax???  The current word is $10k, and a feebate. Many cannot afford a new car, they pay for someone else's new EV, some have a use case that EV cannot provide, so they pay for someone elses new EV. If you can afford a 60k+ EV the 10k is  not an incentive. It maybe for some who can stretch to 50k, but lets be realistic, its free money. And every ICE motorist pays for it, as they are poor, or are not poor but cannot afford it, or whose use case is not EV. 

 

 

Why not put it on New ICE purchases. Those that cannot afford it aren't buying new anyway, they are buying second hand, which won't have the tax. Use the tax on New ICE vehicles to subsidise New EV vehicles, so balance out the price premium for early adopters who are doing the better thing environmentally. Plus add no FBT or RUC to pure EV's (not Hybrids or PHEV's). 


Rikkitic
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  #2229013 1-May-2019 21:28
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I would like an EV but as a pensioner on a low fixed income, I simply can't afford one. For around $5,000 or less, I can get a very decent ICE vehicle. Because of where I live, I have to have a car, but I don't need to use it much, just once a week or so for shopping, so the fuel cost isn't much of an issue.  

 

 





Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

 


 


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