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tdgeek
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  #2095578 24-Sep-2018 14:57
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Benjip:

 

Silly (but genuine) question – what's to stop the likes of Tesla increasing the price of their vehicles by whatever amount the subsidy provides?

 

Eg. Government says "here's a $15,000 cheque with which to buy an EV", Tesla just puts up their prices by $15k per model?

 

(Assuming they are happy/content with current sales levels which I imagine they are due to the Model 3 production delays/restraints).

 

 

No

 

They want sales, happy for a Govt to stump up some R+D

 

Forget Tesla they are overpriced and not a great build quality. Buy from a car manufacturer


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Benjip
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  #2095580 24-Sep-2018 14:59
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tdgeek:

 

Benjip:

 

Silly (but genuine) question – what's to stop the likes of Tesla increasing the price of their vehicles by whatever amount the subsidy provides?

 

Eg. Government says "here's a $15,000 cheque with which to buy an EV", Tesla just puts up their prices by $15k per model?

 

(Assuming they are happy/content with current sales levels which I imagine they are due to the Model 3 production delays/restraints).

 

 

No

 

They want sales, happy for a Govt to stump up some R+D

 

Forget Tesla they are overpriced and not a great build quality. Buy from a car manufacturer

 

 

I'm with you there 100%, they were just the biggest example I could think of. You wouldn't catch me dead in a shoddy Tesla.


ockel
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  #2095599 24-Sep-2018 15:30
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frankv:

 

networkn:

 

tdgeek:

 

Initially low, maybe no taxes, that's probably part of the incentive.

 

 

Great, so the majority of NZ will subsidise them, seems fair. 

 

 

Presumably the Govt has done (or will do) the math so that the cost of incentives is balanced by the reduction in cost to the taxpayer of mitigating the effect of burning fossil fuels. So, in point of fact, the EV users won't be subsidising the petrol fuel drivers.

 

 

 

 

Its taken 9 years in Opposition and 1 year in Government to reach the idea of having incentives for EV's.  How long do you think it will take to do the math?  Or do you think that the concept of a fiscally neutral, non-distortionary subsidy will be abandoned in favour of headline politics?

 

Recall that the previous government abandoned the idea of reducing vehicle emissions through testing/compliance because it cost-disadvantaged those that owned older, cheaper polluting cars.  How do you incentivise improving the aging fleet while not hurting your voting constituents?  




gzt

gzt
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  #2095643 24-Sep-2018 16:55
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frednz: So perhaps it may pay to hold-off buying a new EV until these incentives come into force?

and might pay to put off buying second hand. Hard to know if second hand will be cash incentive or tax incentive of some kind at this point or just talk about the existing ruc exempt in practice situation.

no doubt they had a reason for this announcement probably some final external work complete and publication started.

MikeAqua
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  #2095647 24-Sep-2018 16:57
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Govt subsidies inflate prices (e.g. insulation subsidies).

 

A subsidy doesn't address lack of supply of EVs, which is a factor external to NZ.

 

Nissan make about 50,000 leafs per year - only some of which are RHD.

 

Tesla couldn't organise a party in a brewery when it comes to production.

 

A Hyudnai would need a 20k - 40k rebate to make the purchase price equate to the ICEV price.





Mike


gzt

gzt
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  #2095650 24-Sep-2018 17:02
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The predicted demand curve allows manufacturers to plan and increase production appropriately. Unrelated Nissan is about to free capacity for increased RHD production anyway.

Talkiet
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  #2095651 24-Sep-2018 17:06
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Brilliant, I can't wait for all the low income earners to subsidise my EV purchase. I can't see how to spin this that doesn't equate to those that can afford an EV (Even a second hand leaf isn't anything like the price of an affordable, reasonably efficient reliable car) getting subsidised by those that have no economic choice but to remain with petrol or diesel engines.

 

But hey, It's green right?

 

Cheers - N




Aredwood
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  #2095703 24-Sep-2018 18:26

Talkiet:

Brilliant, I can't wait for all the low income earners to subsidise my EV purchase. I can't see how to spin this that doesn't equate to those that can afford an EV (Even a second hand leaf isn't anything like the price of an affordable, reasonably efficient reliable car) getting subsidised by those that have no economic choice but to remain with petrol or diesel engines.


But hey, It's green right?


Cheers - N



And also subsidized by those who can't buy an EV. Because suitable EV models just don't exist. Still waiting for an EV Ute. And there is very poor choice of EV Vans available.

I think that any new subsidies should be better spent on more public charging. Maybe on the basis of matching dollar for dollar, the revenue that the owner of a public charger receives from paid charging.

This method will ensure that new chargers get built where demand is the greatest.





tdgeek
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  #2095708 24-Sep-2018 18:31
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Aredwood:
Talkiet:

 

Brilliant, I can't wait for all the low income earners to subsidise my EV purchase. I can't see how to spin this that doesn't equate to those that can afford an EV (Even a second hand leaf isn't anything like the price of an affordable, reasonably efficient reliable car) getting subsidised by those that have no economic choice but to remain with petrol or diesel engines.

 

 

 

But hey, It's green right?

 

 

 

Cheers - N

 



And also subsidized by those who can't buy an EV. Because suitable EV models just don't exist. Still waiting for an EV Ute. And there is very poor choice of EV Vans available.

I think that any new subsidies should be better spent on more public charging. Maybe on the basis of matching dollar for dollar, the revenue that the owner of a public charger receives from paid charging.

This method will ensure that new chargers get built where demand is the greatest.

 

How can you use funds to subsidise charging when the rationale is not to incentive EVs?


alasta
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  #2095711 24-Sep-2018 18:34
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Given the state of the NZ vehicle fleet I would have thought that getting the clapped out old bangers off the roads would be the most effective way to reduce emissions, especially old diesel four wheel drives.

 

Removing the oldest vehicles from the fleet would also have a positive safety outcome.


tdgeek
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  #2095712 24-Sep-2018 18:35
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ockel:

 

frankv:

 

networkn:

 

tdgeek:

 

Initially low, maybe no taxes, that's probably part of the incentive.

 

 

Great, so the majority of NZ will subsidise them, seems fair. 

 

 

Presumably the Govt has done (or will do) the math so that the cost of incentives is balanced by the reduction in cost to the taxpayer of mitigating the effect of burning fossil fuels. So, in point of fact, the EV users won't be subsidising the petrol fuel drivers.

 

 

 

 

Its taken 9 years in Opposition and 1 year in Government to reach the idea of having incentives for EV's.  How long do you think it will take to do the math?  Or do you think that the concept of a fiscally neutral, non-distortionary subsidy will be abandoned in favour of headline politics?

 

Recall that the previous government abandoned the idea of reducing vehicle emissions through testing/compliance because it cost-disadvantaged those that owned older, cheaper polluting cars.  How do you incentivise improving the aging fleet while not hurting your voting constituents?  

 

 

The previous Govt introduced incentives for EV's. The current Govt has kept it. Not all topics need to be a political bandwagon. Pollution and fuel costs affect everyone.  I see no issue with any Govt supporting less pollution and reducing oil imports. Given the supply, and the initial outlay its a tough sell, or should we just be weak and flag what both Govts have put forward?


tdgeek
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  #2095714 24-Sep-2018 18:36
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alasta:

 

Given the state of the NZ vehicle fleet I would have thought that getting the clapped out old bangers off the roads would be the most effective way to reduce emissions, especially old diesel four wheel drives.

 

Removing the oldest vehicles from the fleet would also have a positive safety outcome.

 

 

A good idea, how would you do that? Tax the lower income earners? 


GV27
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  #2095715 24-Sep-2018 18:39
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tdgeek:

 

alasta:

 

Given the state of the NZ vehicle fleet I would have thought that getting the clapped out old bangers off the roads would be the most effective way to reduce emissions, especially old diesel four wheel drives.

 

Removing the oldest vehicles from the fleet would also have a positive safety outcome.

 

 

A good idea, how would you do that? Tax the lower income earners? 

 

 

Surely everyone driving an old car is just doing it for the hipster cred right? 


tdgeek
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  #2095716 24-Sep-2018 18:45
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GV27:

 

tdgeek:

 

alasta:

 

Given the state of the NZ vehicle fleet I would have thought that getting the clapped out old bangers off the roads would be the most effective way to reduce emissions, especially old diesel four wheel drives.

 

Removing the oldest vehicles from the fleet would also have a positive safety outcome.

 

 

A good idea, how would you do that? Tax the lower income earners? 

 

 

Surely everyone driving an old car is just doing it for the hipster cred right? 

 

 

Lol probably! These days old Jap cars are dirt cheap and they will run forever. I see no issue with older cars. Cheap, still economical. 


GV27
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  #2095717 24-Sep-2018 18:46
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tdgeek:

 

GV27:

 

tdgeek:

 

alasta:

 

Given the state of the NZ vehicle fleet I would have thought that getting the clapped out old bangers off the roads would be the most effective way to reduce emissions, especially old diesel four wheel drives.

 

Removing the oldest vehicles from the fleet would also have a positive safety outcome.

 

 

A good idea, how would you do that? Tax the lower income earners? 

 

 

Surely everyone driving an old car is just doing it for the hipster cred right? 

 

 

Lol probably! These days old Jap cars are dirt cheap and they will run forever. I see no issue with older cars. Cheap, still economical. 

 

 

Your can't depreciate if it's already worthless meme goes here. 


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