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tdgeek
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  #2265181 26-Jun-2019 17:13
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Obraik:

tdgeek:

Get a grip I didn’t say a Tesla 3 is Ute. You are getting d I’m telling your u to get a Leaf as you told me. You don’t need a Tesla 3 you WANT it. Wants and needs your words


lol, I absolutely never told you to get a Leaf.


You and Fred said that instead of an 80k Kona a Leaf can do. You said it’s about wants and needs

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Obraik
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  #2265228 26-Jun-2019 18:12
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tdgeek:
Obraik:

tdgeek:

Get a grip I didn’t say a Tesla 3 is Ute. You are getting d I’m telling your u to get a Leaf as you told me. You don’t need a Tesla 3 you WANT it. Wants and needs your words


lol, I absolutely never told you to get a Leaf.


You and Fred said that instead of an 80k Kona a Leaf can do. You said it’s about wants and needs

Please read what I said and stop putting words in my mouth. No one told you that you should get a Leaf. I said most people don’t need a SUV.

frednz

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  #2265231 26-Jun-2019 18:28
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All I have said is that the difference between the price of a new EV and the equivalent petrol vehicle can vary a lot depending on the range and other specifications of the EV. I haven't recommended that anyone should buy one vehicle or another.



tdgeek
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  #2265234 26-Jun-2019 18:33
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frednz: All I have said is that the difference between the price of a new EV and the equivalent petrol vehicle can vary a lot depending on the range and other specifications of the EV. I haven't recommended that anyone should buy one vehicle or another.

So why has a Leaf been suggested when the EV Kona has been suggested? Because a Leaf is cheaper even though it’s not what was wanted . Meaning don’t buy an ICE buy an EV any EV will do

frednz

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  #2265239 26-Jun-2019 19:05
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tdgeek:
frednz: All I have said is that the difference between the price of a new EV and the equivalent petrol vehicle can vary a lot depending on the range and other specifications of the EV. I haven't recommended that anyone should buy one vehicle or another.

So why has a Leaf been suggested when the EV Kona has been suggested? Because a Leaf is cheaper even though it’s not what was wanted . Meaning don’t buy an ICE buy an EV any EV will do


Although it's true that the difference in cost between a new Elite 64kWh Kona and an equivalent new petrol vehicle is about $40,000, it's also true that IF you were to buy a 40kWh new Leaf for $60,000, then you'd only need to pay about $20,000 more for your EV. Nobody has suggested or implied that if you want a new EV you should therefore buy the Leaf EV. This is getting too repetitive so to avoid mod intervention can we please avoid any more repetitive arguing over this!

tdgeek
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  #2265250 26-Jun-2019 19:55
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frednz:
tdgeek:
frednz: All I have said is that the difference between the price of a new EV and the equivalent petrol vehicle can vary a lot depending on the range and other specifications of the EV. I haven't recommended that anyone should buy one vehicle or another.

So why has a Leaf been suggested when the EV Kona has been suggested? Because a Leaf is cheaper even though it’s not what was wanted . Meaning don’t buy an ICE buy an EV any EV will do


Although it's true that the difference in cost between a new Elite 64kWh Kona and an equivalent new petrol vehicle is about $40,000, it's also true that IF you were to buy a 40kWh new Leaf for $60,000, then you'd only need to pay about $20,000 more for your EV. Nobody has suggested or implied that if you want a new EV you should therefore buy the Leaf EV. This is getting too repetitive so to avoid mod intervention can we please avoid any more repetitive arguing over this!

 

You are telling me that Instead of buying a Kona I cant get a Leaf. If I wanted a Leaf I can buy one, i dont want a Leaf. But its 20k cheaper so you tell me to buy a Leaf. If Suzuki Swift was an EV at 50k you'd tell me to buy that? It us such a bizarre argument. 

 

Dont tell people what to buy so that the maths look better.


Beltor
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  #2265261 26-Jun-2019 20:03
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Moderator can you please close this topic as it has been hijacked by parties who are not interested in advancing the topic but are more interested in crushing each other’s arguments!



tdgeek
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  #2265262 26-Jun-2019 20:06
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Beltor: Moderator can you please close this topic as it has been hijacked by parties who are not interested in advancing the topic but are more interested in crushing each other’s arguments!

 

It is holding arguments to task. People need to see when a point is dismissed by suggesting someone buys a cheaper car that what they are interested in, so that an EV purchase prices seems more palatable. If you wish to buy a car, do you feel its appropriate to be suggested another cheaper one so that the number looks better? This tactic has bee used a number of times, and its misleading


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  #2265273 26-Jun-2019 20:50

Another thing to consider. Some people will be deliberately keeping their current ICE cars. As they are waiting for EVs to become better/ more affordable. And they cant justify buying a newer ICE car in the meantime.

Mid 90s Japanese cars are also extremely reliable on average. And some of them still get reasonable fuel economy. So a big part of the fleet getting older is simply that newer ICE cars are not enough of an improvement over mid 90s models to justify the price difference.

Then there are the baby boomers/ retirees/ those who use public transport for their commuting, have a work vehicle etc. Who still need to own a car, but might only drive it 5000KM or less per year. Such cars won't be wearing out due to high mileage. And low average distance traveled per year, means not much savings on running costs from buying an EV or newer ICE. So again hard to justify purchasing a newer car.





Aredwood
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  #2265303 26-Jun-2019 21:18

More things to consider:

 

Remember when the UFB network build was only in its early stages, and there was much hand wringing as to why everyone wasn't rushing to sign up to UFB? Despite UFB definitely being better than ADSL. When there was a large group of people who would have loved to sign up, but the UFB network hadn't yet been made available to them.

 

We are at a similar stage with EVs. There will be people who want an EV, but there will be non financial reasons stopping them from buying one. EG: No public chargers near their house. Unable to charge at home. Living in a rental property, and they are worried that if they have to move house, they won't be able to find a new rental that is within range for them to drive to work. They want a Ute / 7 seat car / light truck / Van with a decent rage and or same size as a Toyota Hiace. Or any other type of vehicle where an EV version doesn't exist.

 

 

 

And then there is the "Sunk Cost" consideration. As in buying a new EV means spending $60,000. But keeping their current ICE car means spending $0. Even with a $20K purchase price subsidy. Buying an EV still means spending $40,000 Vs spending $0. Such people are not going to upgrade until something happens that forces them to buy a replacement car. EG old car gets written off in a crash, Stolen, Requires expensive / uneconomic repairs to keep it on the road, Change in life situation forces an upgrade. (newborn baby, becoming self employed etc).






Obraik
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  #2265422 26-Jun-2019 23:46
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Aredwood: Another thing to consider. Some people will be deliberately keeping their current ICE cars. As they are waiting for EVs to become better/ more affordable. And they cant justify buying a newer ICE car in the meantime.

Mid 90s Japanese cars are also extremely reliable on average. And some of them still get reasonable fuel economy. So a big part of the fleet getting older is simply that newer ICE cars are not enough of an improvement over mid 90s models to justify the price difference.

Then there are the baby boomers/ retirees/ those who use public transport for their commuting, have a work vehicle etc. Who still need to own a car, but might only drive it 5000KM or less per year. Such cars won't be wearing out due to high mileage. And low average distance traveled per year, means not much savings on running costs from buying an EV or newer ICE. So again hard to justify purchasing a newer car.

 

Yeah, and keeping your current vehicle is not a bad option.  All things considered, you are probably better off just keeping your current vehicle until you really do need to replace it.

 

The goal would be to swing those that are in the market for a new vehicle to buy a new EV rather than a new ICE vehicle.


Obraik
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  #2265673 27-Jun-2019 11:01
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Another day and another report on climate change with another scientist recommending that it's about time the government started doing something to encourage EVs:

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/113806480/greenhouse-gas-emissions-have-barely-budged-in-a-decade-new-data-shows

 

Interestingly, the infograph they have in the article shows that transport emissions for both households and service industries is about the same.


tdgeek
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  #2265678 27-Jun-2019 11:23
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Obraik:

 

Another day and another report on climate change with another scientist recommending that it's about time the government started doing something to encourage EVs:

 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/113806480/greenhouse-gas-emissions-have-barely-budged-in-a-decade-new-data-shows

 

Interestingly, the infograph they have in the article shows that transport emissions for both households and service industries is about the same.

 

 

I just read this, didn't see the word EV mentioned. The big issue is agriculture which is quite clear

 

Where is the scientist section?


Obraik
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  #2265679 27-Jun-2019 11:24
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tdgeek:

 

I just read this, didn't see the word EV mentioned. The big issue is agriculture which is quite clear

 

Where is the scientist section?

 

 

Towards the end.

 

The growth in transport emissions and the failure to budge agriculture emissions were concerning, Massey University Emeritus Professor Ralph Sims said.

 

"It is deeply concerning that New Zealand has not been able to 'bend the curve downwards' in that our annual greenhouse gas emissions keep rising," he said. 

 

"Overall we have a major problem to resolve rapidly."

 

Technological innovations to reduce agricultural emissions were likely still decades away, he said, and government intervention to encourage low-emissions vehicles was "long overdue"


Linuxluver
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  #2265687 27-Jun-2019 11:36
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There are many things we COULD do to reduce transport emissions rapidly, but people would need to vote for parties with those policies. So far, the proportion who vote for action on Climate change isn't a decisive majority. That National still poll 40% -ish on a "talk but do nothing" stance is a huge reason why not much is happening. That needs to change or not much will change.




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