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Guilliman
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  #2272243 9-Jul-2019 10:03
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lxsw20:

GV27:

 

We are about 16 hours away from the new electric Mini being announced. I am now suddenly in favour of this.

 

 

 

 

They had one in a room at Goodwood, no photos. Looks.... a lot like the current Mini, but with a different dash setup. 

 

 

That is an FEV isn't it? I just had a look at their site and they wibble on a lot about the design without explicitly stating it's this and not a PHEV.

 

I still wouldn't get one though, I got burned hard by the 2006 Mini I had a few years back. Bastard thing had three repairs to the transmission which cost me a boatload of money, not touching a euro again. I'm much more optimistic about the Leaf I have.

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afe66
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  #2272245 9-Jul-2019 10:12
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Unless you can plug the car and charge it, I dont counted it as an electric vehicle by modern standards.

Ok with original Prius but if you burn fossil fuels to generate the electricity it's not an EV.

FEV = ICE for me.

tdgeek
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  #2272248 9-Jul-2019 10:15
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wellygary:

 

tdgeek:

 

Obraik:

 

I am a tad disappointed that they're giving any subsidies to any ICE vehicles - I personally think the subsidies should be kept to zero emission vehicles only.  I'm not opposed to the $80k cut off but it does mean something like the Tesla Model 3 now has a large gap between its entry level model ($66k after the incentive) and the next model up (which is above the cap at $94k) - that's something Tesla will have to resolve, though.  Pricing on all EVs is likely to be different in 2021 vs what it is today so I guess it's not really worth worrying about at the moment.

 

 

If 80k is the cutoff, you would imagine it will be as sliding scale, perhaps 8k at 60k car sliding down to zero at 80k car

 

 

Nope , it appears to be a hard break, 

 

If you look at page 43 of the consultation document they include the Renault Kangoo ($77,900) as getting the 8K reduction, along with the I3 ($77,200)..

 

 

Ok, thanks for that.




Linuxluver
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  #2272251 9-Jul-2019 10:22
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tdgeek:

Obraik: Something is finally happening https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12247724


You need to read further, its emissions based not EV based, although EV's to mid level get a larger benefit. RUC to come off has has not been successful


Interesting they say its taxpayer cost free, but its not, if you need a larger car or you are a tradie


The moves will encourage smaller cars and newer cars.



By 2021 there will be hybrid and EV utes. Great Wall are already talking about bring them in here. LDV already have a huge van available here.




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Obraik
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  #2272253 9-Jul-2019 10:24
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Linuxluver:
tdgeek:

 

Obraik: Something is finally happening https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12247724

 

 

 

You need to read further, its emissions based not EV based, although EV's to mid level get a larger benefit. RUC to come off has has not been successful

 

 

 

Interesting they say its taxpayer cost free, but its not, if you need a larger car or you are a tradie

 

 

 

The moves will encourage smaller cars and newer cars.

 



By 2021 there will be hybrid and EV utes. Great Wall are already talking about bring them in here. LDV already have a huge van available here.

 

Rivian's ute should be on sale around that time as well, the Tesla ute won't be far off (being announced in a month or two) and Ford may have started their EV ute plans by then (they've invested in Rivian so it will likely be based on that).


tdgeek
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  #2272254 9-Jul-2019 10:28
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Linuxluver:
tdgeek:

 

Obraik: Something is finally happening https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12247724

 

 

 

You need to read further, its emissions based not EV based, although EV's to mid level get a larger benefit. RUC to come off has has not been successful

 

 

 

Interesting they say its taxpayer cost free, but its not, if you need a larger car or you are a tradie

 

 

 

The moves will encourage smaller cars and newer cars.

 



By 2021 there will be hybrid and EV utes. Great Wall are already talking about bring them in here. LDV already have a huge van available here.

 

Thats good to hear. EV ute that has 4 doors may also pickup the larger car person. 2021 may be the year of the EV. More models, pay and drive away today


Dingbatt
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  #2272261 9-Jul-2019 10:34
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Excuse my ignorance, but what is an FEV?

Do you mean a Full Hybrid? I'm getting tired of people thinking a hybrid is an electric vehicle. Perhaps they need to look up the meaning of hybrid. Enough people are confused about the difference between full, mild and plug-in hybrids as it is, without introducing yet another tag for them. It's bad enough Toyota/Lexus using the marketing bs "self charging" to describe their hybrids.
Or is it a Fuel-Cell Electric Vehicle, or a Full Electric Vehicle?

Why is there an upper EV price level, above which, there is no subsidy? Surely an EV is an EV regardless of its price. Aren't they all zero tailpipe emissions vehicles? By having an upper limit it reveals itself as an envy tax. Watermelon politics from the Greens again.




“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996




tdgeek
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  #2272267 9-Jul-2019 10:42
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Dingbatt: Excuse my ignorance, but what is an FEV?

Do you mean a Full Hybrid? I'm getting tired of people thinking a hybrid is an electric vehicle. Perhaps they need to look up the meaning of hybrid. Enough people are confused about the difference between full, mild and plug-in hybrids as it is, without introducing yet another tag for them. It's bad enough Toyota/Lexus using the marketing bs "self charging" to describe their hybrids.
Or is it a Fuel-Cell Electric Vehicle, or a Full Electric Vehicle?

Why is there an upper EV price level, above which, there is no subsidy? Surely an EV is an EV regardless of its price. Aren't they all zero tailpipe emissions vehicles? By having an upper limit it reveals itself as an envy tax. Watermelon politics from the Greens again.

 

Agree re the naming conventions. I think the upper limit is saying if you can afford a 125k car you don't need an $8000 cash bonus to get your purchase over the line. Lets use that for someone who it might get the over the line. Personally if you are going to get an EV you will get one, subsidy or not. So, as an incentive for takeup it fails. Id favour a subsidy that was $X at a midrange vehicle, tailed off to zero at 80k on a sliding scale, but increased on a linear scale below the midrange, so that the lower to middle EV's get more subsidy = more purchases = less emissions


Guilliman
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  #2272269 9-Jul-2019 10:44
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Dingbatt: Excuse my ignorance, but what is an FEV?

Do you mean a Full Hybrid? I'm getting tired of people thinking a hybrid is an electric vehicle. Perhaps they need to look up the meaning of hybrid. Enough people are confused about the difference between full, mild and plug-in hybrids as it is, without introducing yet another tag for them. It's bad enough Toyota/Lexus using the marketing bs "self charging" to describe their hybrids.
Or is it a Fuel-Cell Electric Vehicle, or a Full Electric Vehicle?

Why is there an upper EV price level, above which, there is no subsidy? Surely an EV is an EV regardless of its price. Aren't they all zero tailpipe emissions vehicles? By having an upper limit it reveals itself as an envy tax. Watermelon politics from the Greens again.

 

 

I thought FEV stood for Full Electric Vehicle? I could be wrong though.

tdgeek
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  #2272271 9-Jul-2019 10:49
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Guilliman:
Dingbatt: Excuse my ignorance, but what is an FEV?

Do you mean a Full Hybrid? I'm getting tired of people thinking a hybrid is an electric vehicle. Perhaps they need to look up the meaning of hybrid. Enough people are confused about the difference between full, mild and plug-in hybrids as it is, without introducing yet another tag for them. It's bad enough Toyota/Lexus using the marketing bs "self charging" to describe their hybrids.
Or is it a Fuel-Cell Electric Vehicle, or a Full Electric Vehicle?

Why is there an upper EV price level, above which, there is no subsidy? Surely an EV is an EV regardless of its price. Aren't they all zero tailpipe emissions vehicles? By having an upper limit it reveals itself as an envy tax. Watermelon politics from the Greens again.
I thought FEV stood for Full Electric Vehicle? I could be wrong though.

 

I prefer EV (full) PHEV (plug in hybrid) ICE 

 

I dont see the point of a self charging non plug in hybrid


Obraik
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  #2272272 9-Jul-2019 10:51
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Is there clarification on whether the $80k cut off is before or after GST? 


Dingbatt
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  #2272276 9-Jul-2019 10:55
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tdgeek:

Dingbatt: Excuse my ignorance, but what is an FEV?

Do you mean a Full Hybrid? I'm getting tired of people thinking a hybrid is an electric vehicle. Perhaps they need to look up the meaning of hybrid. Enough people are confused about the difference between full, mild and plug-in hybrids as it is, without introducing yet another tag for them. It's bad enough Toyota/Lexus using the marketing bs "self charging" to describe their hybrids.
Or is it a Fuel-Cell Electric Vehicle, or a Full Electric Vehicle?

Why is there an upper EV price level, above which, there is no subsidy? Surely an EV is an EV regardless of its price. Aren't they all zero tailpipe emissions vehicles? By having an upper limit it reveals itself as an envy tax. Watermelon politics from the Greens again.


Agree re the naming conventions. I think the upper limit is saying if you can afford a 125k car you don't need an $8000 cash bonus to get your purchase over the line. Lets use that for someone who it might get the over the line. Personally if you are going to get an EV you will get one, subsidy or not. So, as an incentive for takeup it fails. Id favour a subsidy that was $X at a midrange vehicle, tailed off to zero at 80k on a sliding scale, but increased on a linear scale below the midrange, so that the lower to middle EV's get more subsidy = more purchases = less emissions



And that is an envy tax.
People who buy expensive cars can just turn around and say "it's only $3000 extra, so screw you, I'll buy a Ford F250 for my daily commute into the city".
I still think the simplest way is to tax the fuel. You use more, you pay more. But that impacts "the poor" disproportionality. Perhaps a modern version of Marie Antoinette would say "Let them ride public transport".




“We’ve arranged a society based on science and technology, in which nobody understands anything about science technology. Carl Sagan 1996


tdgeek
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  #2272280 9-Jul-2019 11:04
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Dingbatt:
tdgeek:

 

Dingbatt: Excuse my ignorance, but what is an FEV?

Do you mean a Full Hybrid? I'm getting tired of people thinking a hybrid is an electric vehicle. Perhaps they need to look up the meaning of hybrid. Enough people are confused about the difference between full, mild and plug-in hybrids as it is, without introducing yet another tag for them. It's bad enough Toyota/Lexus using the marketing bs "self charging" to describe their hybrids.
Or is it a Fuel-Cell Electric Vehicle, or a Full Electric Vehicle?

Why is there an upper EV price level, above which, there is no subsidy? Surely an EV is an EV regardless of its price. Aren't they all zero tailpipe emissions vehicles? By having an upper limit it reveals itself as an envy tax. Watermelon politics from the Greens again.

 

 

 

Agree re the naming conventions. I think the upper limit is saying if you can afford a 125k car you don't need an $8000 cash bonus to get your purchase over the line. Lets use that for someone who it might get the over the line. Personally if you are going to get an EV you will get one, subsidy or not. So, as an incentive for takeup it fails. Id favour a subsidy that was $X at a midrange vehicle, tailed off to zero at 80k on a sliding scale, but increased on a linear scale below the midrange, so that the lower to middle EV's get more subsidy = more purchases = less emissions

 



And that is an envy tax.
People who buy expensive cars can just turn around and say "it's only $3000 extra, so screw you, I'll buy a Ford F250 for my daily commute into the city".
I still think the simplest way is to tax the fuel. You use more, you pay more. But that impacts "the poor" disproportionality. Perhaps a modern version of Marie Antoinette would say "Let them ride public transport".

 

Id call it Inefficient Tax. It costs, but gains zero.

 

In time, a day will arrive when everything carbon generating is punitively taxed. I am for that, but its not yet


Batman
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  #2272281 9-Jul-2019 11:05
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People put in diesel heaters in their EVs. I'd hate to be in an EV and turn into ICE sitting in the car when it's 1 C outside and -1 C inside (you know, coz you parked outside your motel when the night was -3 C)

 

I'd much rather have a small ICE that does some donkey work like heating, air conditioning, lights, and hey, charging the battery when I can't be bothered stopping for an hour here and there or when people are running away from some zombie apocalypse and mass queueing at the chargers.

 

But I won't be popular. But that's ok. Coz the vegan salad you just bought was probably put together using stuff flown all over the world and trucked around the country and tenderly wrapped in layers of plastic in shipping.





Involuntary autocorrect in operation on mobile device. Apologies in advance.


zenourn
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  #2272283 9-Jul-2019 11:06
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I completely agree with the need to encourage the transition to low-emission transportation but this current policy as drafted will have some negative impact.

 

The long delay between announcement and implementation is going to cause a short-term decrease in EV update as people wait for the subsidy and increase the purchase of high-emission vehicles to avoid the fee.

 

It is also going to reduce the financial benefit for many people of having an EV. With our used EV we have saved $3600 from the exemption on RUCs so far over 2 years (with more savings to come). This policy will replace that with a one-off $2600 subsidy (or $8000 if you get a < 3 year old used import), with reductions over time.

 

The $8000 if <= 3 years old and $2600 otherwise is going to cause a discontinuity and a huge demand for used imports that are three years old... will increase their auction price effectively eating up the extra subsidy level. Need to have a graded scale to solve this problem.


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